Kresser/Kahn Vegan Debate: My Post-Game Analysis

Kresser/Kahn Vegan Debate: My Post-Game Analysis

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Kresser/Kahn Vegan Debate: My Post-Game Analysis

Chris Kresser just debated vegan cardiologist Joel Kahn about veganism and the value of animal products in the diet on Joe Rogan's wildly popular podcast, The Joe Rogan Experience.

I just spend days making a post-game analysis, which you can watch here:

or with this link:

Kresser/Kahn Vegan Debate on Joe Rogan: My Post-Game Analysis

The original debate is 3 hours and 47 minutes long. My post-game analysis is only 1 hour and 16. It has about 45 minutes of me giving my analysis with about 30 minutes of clips. I tied together what I considered the most important arguments, and laid them out in a structure that, in retrospect, is more systematic and easier to understand than the original video, where the organization is spontaneous.

I think it could be useful to watch my video first, as a way of getting the crux of the arguments faster, or afterwards, as a way of digesting what happened, as well as the most obvious reason — to get my point of view.

If you enjoy this, I would greatly appreciate your help in making it popular and/or putting me on Joe Rogan's radar. If you could give the video a thumbs up, share it, or comment on it, that would be amazing. If you are on Twitter, it would also be incredibly helpful if you like, retweet, or reply to my tweet about the analysis.

I hope you enjoy the analysis and thank you in advance for any help promoting it!

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  1. This video has been blocked by BentPixels on copyright grounds. Are you able to provide a transcript or a modified video without the offending material?

  2. Chris… the AJayson hand signal in your video was a constant reminder that you are a Mason.

    We get it.

    You are enlightened.

  3. I grew up on a ‘truck farm’ (many different kinds of fruits and vestibules) and worked alongside my father, siblings, grandparents, and sometimes my aunt in the fields from the age of 11 to 18. I saw the habits of my grandparents close up. they took no supplements. they were omnivores. they never stayed in a nursing home, and they both lived to 94. my grandmother was Austrian, Irish, German etc, and my grandfather was 100% southern Italian (born in the US from Italian immigrants). they were both very conscious of not overeating. my grandfather would leave the table and sit under a tree in the backyard alone. i think he wanted to be away from the smells of the kitchen so he wouldn’t eat too much. both grandparents were always moving, and i mean doing heavy farmwork in their 70s and even 80s. they didn’t go out to eat- most food was cooked from scratch. no soda. lost of red wine for my grandfather, but not my grandmother. they mostly drank ‘ice water’ form the ‘ice box’. they also canned food and had a huge freezer so that in the winter months they could still have some home grown vegetables. if you have a job where you are constantly moving around outside in the sunshine, even in the winter, you eat some homegrown vegetables year round, you have a life partner you can always count on, you have family right around the corner or across the road, you might have a chance of living independently into your 90s .

  4. This is great! Thank you.
    Did this debate cover the question of consumption of factory farmed animals vs well treated animals on smaller farms? Especially since factory farming and monocroping deplete soils which end up giving us depleted food (animals and plants) even if we only ate plant based foods. Do you have any sources on these subjects? How we treat the soil/environment to grow plants (whether animals eat them or we do) will depend on what essential nutrients we get back.

    1. Not really, they agreed at the beginning that they were only talking about high-quality foods and then didn’t talk about it much after that.

  5. Mistake: Beef/pork chop has the same level of, if not more, saturated fat than olive oil.

    A simple search on google can confirm this. Kresser lied and you did not fact check him and agreed with his claim.

    120 cals of olive oil have 2g of Sat fat
    240 of olive oil has 4g of sat fat
    213 beef have 5g of sat fat
    231 pork chop have 4.3

    So olive oil has

    1. what I see wrong with it is that its 7 hours long, but they make a lot of good points and point out things that both Kresser and Khan got wrong, not just what Khan gets wrong like this video

  6. One topic that seems to not be addressed is the role of food availability/consumption in regards to human evolution. At least in this debate it was not. However, in your analysis of the debate you did mention that early humans ate the whole animal and not just the muscle meat. Also, the requirement for supplementation on a vegan diet was discussed. Khan referenced this point in agreement and even discussed how he supplemented. Kresser points out that no supplements are needed if certain animal foods are consumed and in your analysis you agree. So it seem highly intuitive if not indisputable that animal food was part of a early human diet. A diet that allowed early human to survive and evolve. Instead of just debating over statistics and studies of current human it would seem a compelling argument for Kresser to have also presented the role of animal food on human evolution.

  7. This is just a quick note on the page design. The link to the video wasn’t immediately obvious to me. The text does make it clear, but many people skim when they hit a website. Perhaps you could make the link more obvious visually. For me the large font just looks like a heading.

  8. Chris,

    What do you think about how the FTO gene plays into whether or not to consume animal fats? I have a FTO mutation and have been eating saturated fat mainly in the form of butter and ghee. I probably average a couple of tablespoons per day between the two. I’ve heard Dr. Rhonda Patrick express major concerns about eating saturated fats when one has a FTO mutation and it has me worried.

    I have googled for articles regarding FTO and found these papers:
    1) The fat mass and obesity-associated (FTO) gene variant rs9939609 predicts long-term incidence of cardiovascular disease and related death independent of the traditional risk factors ( Annals of Medicine, 47:8, 655-663, DOI:10.3109/07853890.2015.1091088)
    2)Role of a common variant of Fat Mass and Obesity associated (FTO) gene in obesity and coronary artery disease in subjects from Punjab, Pakistan: a case control study (Lipids in Health and Disease 2016)
    3)Association between FTO gene polymorphisms and HDL cholesterol concentration may cause higher risk of cardiovascular disease in patients with acromegaly (Pituitary, February 2018)

    As far as I can tell FTO was linked to increased homocysteine, but it was hard for me to tell if that was only due to increased BMI (I am a thin 37 year old male). FTO was also linked by some studies to CVD/CAD risk and lower HDL (other studies seem to disagree or associate these changes with BMI). The article in Pituitary concluded that CVD risk was associated to FTO not FTO mediated BMI stating ” A large meta-analysis confirmed the significant association of the rs9939609 polymorphism with CVD risk, which was not mediated by changes in BMI”

    As far as I can understand Rhonda recommended increasing polyunsaturated and monounsaturated fats and reducing saturated fats but I can’t find any documentation regarding why mono/polys would help. My guess is that FTO people should consume more mono/polys as these fats increase HDL.

    I’d like to know
    1) Should I eat less saturated fat?
    2) What is the mechanism of danger?
    3) What studies suggest any relevant interventions?
    4) Should I eat more polyunsaturated and monounsaturated fats?
    5) Besides exercise and a low glycemic diet what else should I do to help with FTO (if anything should be done at all)?
    6) If I should eat more polyunsaturated and monounsaturated fats, what is the mechanism behind this suggestion?

    Thank you for your book and all of your good work

    1. Please submit this information as a topic request on the contact page.

      On the topic of weight loss I’m very skeptical that you need to know any of this when you can rather easily determine, with a systematic trial and error approach, the foods that make it easiest to sustain a caloric deficit.

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