In this episode, I have Dr. Dmitry Kats, MPH, PhD. He has a PhD in epidemiology from the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Many people have asked me what I think of his Niatonin protocol for COVID. And as you'll see in this interview that has since evolved into the Niacur protocol, which now has the dosing regimen of just niacin and curcumin, having abandoned the melatonin from the original protocol. You will find in this 3.5-hour conversation all about the justification for that protocol, how it evolved over time, where it came from, and you will get a really interesting look into the fascinating mind of Dr. Kats.

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  1. Hi Chris, I love the info you put out, thank you!

    I’m not sure if you’re friends with Dmitry or not but I thought you and fellow podcast listeners would benefit from knowing this:

    Upon listening to your conversation with Dmitry Kats I decided to join the Telegram group he set up. I thought his Covid treatment protocol sounded interesting and I wanted to try it and kept up to date with the protocol and any evolution in his thinking. Upon joining the group I even added him to my contact list (which was a huge mistake and I’ll reveal why later)

    Earlier today I shared an experience about using Sertraline (Zoloft) and mentioned it saved my life because I’ve had crippling OCD (And yes, I’ve used without success many of the natural protocols suggested by you, Dmitry, among many others). I mentioned that the many people in this group demonizing this drug didn’t make sense to someone like me who’s benefited greatly from this drug. I also said I wasn’t a pharma shill because I had not been vaccinated.

    Later in the evening I noticed I had received a call from him on Telegram. I was excited to hear from him and quickly called him back and he answered with a torrent of verbal abuse. I couldn’t get a word in except to say that I was sorry he was so upset, he then hung up.

    I was ejected from the group and he had sent me a long list of messages about how I’m a this and that. I responded with my side of the story and it did not go well.

    Because I had added him to my contact list on Telegram, he now knows my mobile number (a setting which I’ve since changed but it’s too late). That is kinda scary. Given his disposition and the number of followers he has, he could make my life difficult if he wanted to by publishing my number on the Telegram group, Twitter, or perhaps he’s capable of something much worse.

    That’s all to say that this guy is mentally unwell despite having the best of intentions. His protocol made sense to me and I’ll continue to use it as a prophylaxis and I’ll recommend the protocol to anyone who is interested in another potential early treatment. But at the same time I’ll warn everyone to avoid having any direct contact with him.

    If you are friends with him, please let him know that I don’t want any trouble and want a chance to at least explain myself. Unfortunately, it sounds like he’s already ‘othered’ me.

    1. His rants caught my attention last year when he was doing a so-called Master Class. I asked about his credentials but he never answered so I did my own research. He has a arrest record for DUI, assault, and threatening behavior. The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill has no record of him graduating as he claims. When I said this on Twitter, he threatened me with a tirade of verbal abuse. Long story short, he is misrepresenting himself and is a fraud. It doesn’t take a metal health professional to see that he is mentally unbalanced.

  2. Thank you Chris!
    I greatly enjoyed this interview! What some people see as erratic, I see as PASSION for his work!
    We actually need more people like this in our world fighting for root cause instead of developing medications to suppress symptoms.

  3. Chris,
    Wow, I got through about 10 minutes of the video. It seems as if dimitry is incoherent at best, and has to locate the information on the web to answer your questions? He seems to have no idea where he is going with his protocols. It changes on a weekly basis. Niatonin, Niacur, Aliacian, or whatever it is now. I went to his telegram channel and was unimpressed with his verbally abusive attitude towards anyone who does not send him money or donations or sign up to his gofundme page. His verbal rants about people not appreciating all his hard work and that “people need to stop asking stupid questions” and that most are “dumbasse’s and stupid f***k’s” I don’t think anyone should be following any of his protocols if they care about there own health. Thank you for your informative videos, and for bringing light into the darkness, especially exposing people who are only trying to make a buck off of a unfortunate disease.

  4. Dmitri is wildly incoherent, at multiple points he just seems to lose the plot entirely and Chris has to literally put words in his mouth or guess what he is was thinking while Dmitry checks out. I’m not trying to be mean, but he quite frankly looks like he is on drugs. His eyes are pointing in different directions, he jumps up and down on his chair like a child with severe ADHD, he repetitively moves in a manner that can only be described as Tourette syndrome. Two months ago, melatonin with niacin was his ultimate end all holy grail, and now he dismisses it non-nonchalantly. Hi vitriol against ivermectin and it’s extremely respectable proponents is almost paranoid schizophrenic, it’s literally a nobel prize winning wonder drug and has possibly saved more lives then any other drug ever. It’s generic and makes very little profits. Some of his points are interesting, but the 4 hour rant is virtually incomprehensible. I understand intelligent people are sometimes erratic, but he should either take something or stop taking something to calm himself and focus, or not appear on video.

  5. Chris,
    We listened to the entire 3.5 hours and we are now thoroughly exhausted. I commend your patience in trying to get to the actual biological mechanism substantiating Dr. Kats’ hypothesis. However, the “swirling” never stopped as Dr. Kats kept pivoting away from directly answering your question. Perhaps, someday, Dr. Kats will be able carry forward his hypothesis with qualified validation.
    Dr. Kats seemed unclear on his protocol. Is this the same Dmitry Kats with connections to,“1 Party at A Time” or “BetterFly” as described at If so, we’re sorry you didn’t ask what was in the “BetterFly” formula and how dosing compares with his NiaCur protocol.
    Thank you for all your work. We greatly appreciate your thorough and thoughtful communications on nutrition.

  6. Hi Chris:

    I had to tap out after a few minutes of listening to Dr Kats – his delivery is too fragmented and stream-of-consciousness-like. Very hard to digest. I tried!!

    His website is full of links to his now cancelled twitter account.

    Is there a reader’s digest version of what he is recommending?

    thanks for your efforts in clarifying a complex issue.

  7. Thanks, Chris and Dmitry. I’m enjoying the talk. I’m about half way through the video.

    I’m an herbalist, and I’m interested in when science connects with traditional herbal medicine.

    It occurred to me that the niacin is probably a diaphoretic (causes sweating). I looked it up and found that it is. Please correct me if I’m wrong. 🙂

    Herbalists and Traditional Chinese Medicine practitioners use diaphoretic herbs to promote sweating in order to expel external pathogens (colds and flu) from the superficial levels of the body (mainly, the skin). There are warming and cooling diaphoretics. Cooling diaphoretics also help to cool down the body’s temperature.

    I’m also intrigued that Dimitry pairs niacin with turmeric. Herbal pairings (called Dui Yao in TCM) are a classical approach to building herbal formulas. Herbs are paired together for their special properties; together they form a synergy. For example, a diaphoretic herb might be paired with an herb that has anti-inflammatory and other properties that work deeper within the body. A formula like that would be taken at the onset of cold/flu.

    Thanks for your video. Chris, I appreciate the work that you are doing!

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