In part 2 of The Carnivore Debate, we cover the philosophy of the carnivore diet and the potential pitfalls of carnivore and keto.
The research that Dr. Saladino and I discussed with each other before this debate is listed in the show notes — there are five pages of references!
Here’s what we debated:
- What exactly is a carnivore diet? Is a 90% meat diet a carnivore diet, a carnivore diet you cheat on, a carnivore-ish diet, or just a meat-heavy omnivorous diet? And why definitions absolutely matter.
- Is the carnivore diet ancestral? What can we learn from present-day hunter-gatherers, the archeological record, and our evolutionary history as revealed by our genes?
- Who is the carnivore diet for?
- To what extent do carnivore and keto overlap?
- What are the benefits of keto and how broadly applicable are they?
- What are the potential harms of keto? In particular:
- acid-base balance
- thyroid, stress, and sex hormones
- oxidative stress and glycation
- sports performance
- We agree we need to cycle between the fed state and the fasting state. Can the keto diet, designed to mimic fasting-state physiology, provide adequate fed-state signals to keep our body feeling well nourished?
- Inuit CPT-1a deficiency redux: did a genetic impairment in the ability to make ketones sweep through the Arctic to protect the Inuit from acidosis, or to help them stay warm?
Dr. Saladino completed residency in psychiatry at the University of Washington and is a certified functional medicine practitioner through the Institute for Functional Medicine. He attended medical school at the University of Arizona where he worked with Dr. Andrew Weil focusing on integrative medicine and nutritional biochemistry. Prior to this, Dr. Saladino worked as a physician assistant in Cardiology. It was during this time that he saw first hand the shortcomings of mainstream western medicine with its symptom focused, pharmaceutical based paradigm. He decided to return to medical school with the hope of better understanding the true roots of chronic disease and illness, and how to correct these. He now maintains a private practice in San Diego, California, sees clients from all over the world virtually, and has used the carnivore with hundreds of patients to reverse autoimmunity, chronic inflammation, and mental health issues. When he is not researching connections between nutritional biochemistry and chronic disease, he can be found in the ocean searching for the perfect wave, cultivating mindfulness, or spending time with friends and family.
Find more of Dr. Paul Saladino on the Fundamental Health podcast and at https://carnivoremd.com
Get my free 9-page guide to optimizing vitamins and minerals on the carnivore diet at https://chrismasterjohnphd.com/carnivore
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Masterjohn and Saladino Show Notes
00:42 Cliff Notes
05:18 Introductions
05:28 What is a carnivore diet?
18:15 Is the ancestral human diet carnivore or omnivore?
50:40 Who is a carnivore diet for?
01:08:03 To what extent do carnivore and keto overlap?
01:10:34 Who is a keto diet for?
01:18:50 Ketogenic diets are only a partial mimic of fasting physiology
01:23:46 Ketones effect on the NAD/NADH ratio
01:27:31 Ketogenesis has opposite effects in the liver as in the ketone-utilizing tissue.
01:29:31 Ketogenic diets and oxidative stress
01:40:18 Longevity: why you want to cycle between the fasting state and the fed state
01:45:04 Can the ketogenic diet provide a sufficiently robust fed-state signal?
01:53:11 The keto diet and thyroid, stress, and sex hormones
02:10:05 Keto and sports performance
02:18:05 Why do the Inuit have a genetic impairment in making ketones, to protect against acidosis, or to stay warm?
02:35:48 Wrapping up
Research Paul and I Discussed With Each Other Prior to the Debate
Diet and the evolution of human amylase gene copy number variation
Insights into hominin phenotypic and dietary evolution from ancient DNA sequence data
Isotopic evidence for the diets of European Neanderthals and early modern humans
Ketoacidosis in a non-diabetic woman who was fasting during lactation
Ketoacidosis is not always due to diabetes
A life-threatening complication of Atkins diet
Ketoacidosis during a low-carbohydrate diet
Ketoacidosis: The Dark Side of Ketones
The effects of diet on muscle pH and metabolism during high intensity exercise
Keto-Adaptation: Some Clues to Its Complexity
Acid–base safety during the course of a very low-calorie-ketogenic diet
Measurement of blood acetoacetate and β-hydroxybutyrate in an automatic analyser
Metabolic characteristics of keto-adapted ultra-endurance runners
Elevated polyunsaturated fatty acids in blood serum obtained from children on the ketogenic diet
The effects of a ketogenic diet on exercise metabolism and physical performance in off-road cyclists
The Ketogenic Diet's Effect on Cortisol Metabolism
Cardiovascular and hormonal aspects of very‐low‐carbohydrate ketogenic diets
Body composition and hormonal responses to a carbohydrate-restricted diet
Glucose but not protein or fat load amplifies the cortisol response to psychosocial stress
Acetyl coenzyme A: a central metabolite and second messenger
Hormone-mediated down-regulation of hepatic glutathione synthesis in the rat.
Sugar Is the Ultimate Antioxidant and Insulin Will Make You Younger
The ketogenic diet increases mitochondrial glutathione levels
Acute oxidative stress and systemic Nrf2 activation by the ketogenic diet
Modulation of oxidative stress and mitochondrial function by the ketogenic diet
Ketogenic diet increases glutathione peroxidase activity in rat hippocampus
The redox state of free nicotinamide–adenine dinucleotide phosphate in the cytoplasm of rat liver
Comparative studies on lipogenic enzyme activities in the liver of human and some animal species.
Ketosis leads to increased methylglyoxal production on the Atkins diet
Glycation, ageing and carnosine: are carnivorous diets beneficial?
Regulation of Methylglyoxal Accumulation by Glutathione and Dietary Antioxidants
Is the “Receptor for AGEs (RAGE)” Really a Receptor for AGEs?
Leptin: a molecule integrating somatic energy stores, energy expenditure and fertility
Coupling between nutrient availability and thyroid hormone activation
DuOx2 promoter regulation by hormones, transcriptional factors and the coactivator TAZ
The Effect of Ketogenic Diets on Thyroid Hormones
Carbs and Sports Performance: The Principles
Carbs and Sports Performance: The Evidence
Effects of a 4-Week Very Low-Carbohydrate Diet on High-Intensity Interval Training Responses
Inuit Genetics Show Us Why Evolution Does Not Want Us In Constant Ketosis
Quantitative Variation of Erythrocyte Carbonic Anhydrase Levels
Acid-base and electrolyte disturbances in hypothermia
Outcome from severe accidental hypothermia in Southern Finland—a 10-year review
The P479L gene for CPT-1a and fatty acid oxidation
Coconuts and Cornstarch in the Arctic?
Glutamate/gaba-glutamine Cycle
Metabolic control of vesicular glutamate transport and release
β-hydroxybutyrate alters GABA-transaminase activity in cultured astrocytes
Anesthetic properties of the ketone bodies β-hydroxybutyric acid and acetone
Clinical calorimetry XLV. Prolonged meat diets with a study of kidney function and ketosis
AHS18 Michael Rose – Evolutionary Biology of Diet, Aging, and Mismatch.
β-Hydroxybutyrate: a signaling metabolite
Ketone bodies mimic the life span extending properties of caloric restriction
More Resources on Carnivore
Dr. Saladino’s work can be found at carnivoremd.com
Dr. Masterjohn’s guide, Doing a Carnivore Diet Right: Vitamins and Minerals, can be obtained here.
Two master minds that make a close balance and leave room for thought. We never stop learning so I don’t walk away confused from this audio presentation please keep doing what you do and question and look for documented proof. And please do more with Dr. Paul Saladino it’s nice to get a different perspective from two people who dig into research and put their point across makes the mind think. I know that at the age of 63 with so many illnesses very much over weight 186lbs now after a year of Keto and not strict where I was counting macros just eating and cutting out carbs and sugar one year later down to 150lbs most illness gone at least 80 to 85% better. I started Carnivore now one month or so Carnivore-ish still eating some nuts and avocados. but cut all veggies out experienced bad oxalate dumping but am doing so much better on this diet or lifestyle. thank you again for all the things you do.
P.S. Also still supplementing with plant based supplements. Will cut most out after I do DNA testing but my physical showed unbelievable results my dr. can’t believe and he’s on board with all I’m doing although he doesn’t know all the supplements I’m taking.
Steve