If there’s a single vitamin you need to know more about, it’s vitamin K2. The first reason is you’re probably not getting enough. The second is that it doesn’t get the attention it deserves, and it’s really hard to find reliable and easy-to-use information about it.
This resource is meant to change that. It begins by teaching you everything you need to know about the vitamin, including its benefits, how much you need, and how to get it from food. It includes shareable infographics to make the concepts fun and easy to understand. Finally, it provides reviews of the available supplements and a searchable database of the vitamin K2 contents of foods that can’t be found anywhere else.
If you’re a beginner, you can read the article straight through or pick the parts that are most interesting or useful to you. If you are an advanced user and already know a lot about vitamin K2 or have a strong science background, you can click on the buttons that say “click here for a more detailed explanation” in order to expand descriptions that are better suited to your level of expertise.
The Health Benefits of Vitamin K2
Vitamin K2 has a wide range of underappreciated health benefits:
- It prevents calcium from going into all the wrong places and makes sure it gets into all the right places. For example, it keeps it out of your kidneys, where it would cause kidney stones, and keeps it out of your blood vessels, where it would cause heart disease, but helps it to get into your bones and teeth, making your bones strong and your teeth resistant to cavities.
- It helps you make insulin and remain very sensitive to insulin. This means it helps stabilize your blood sugar, protects against diabetes, and prevents the metabolic problems that often arise as a consequence of obesity.
- It promotes sexual health by helping you optimize your sex hormones. For example, it increases testosterone and fertility in males, and it helps bring the high levels of male hormones found in women with polycystic ovarian syndrome (PCOS) back down to normal.
- It helps improve exercise performance by enhancing your ability to utilize energy during bouts of physical activity.
- It protects against cancer by suppressing the genes that make cells cancerous and expressing the genes that make cells healthy.
These roles are shown in the shareable infographic below. You can share it using the button in the upper right corner, or the buttons on the bottom strip. You can even use the button in the upper right corner to generate an embed code to share it on your own site if you have one.
Vitamin K2‘s best-known and most well-established role is as a cofactor for the vitamin K carboxylase. This is a role that it shares equally with vitamin K1. The difference between vitamins K1 and K2 is discussed below, and in this section I will simply refer to “vitamin K.” The vitamin K carboxylase is an enzyme that adds carbon dioxide to the side chains of specific glutamate residues within specific vitamin K-dependent proteins. Once added to a glutamate residue, the carbon dioxide becomes a carboxyl group, so the process is known as carboxylation. Carboxyl groups carry negative charges, so carboxylation helps vitamin K-dependent proteins bind to calcium, which carries a positive charge. In other words, the most well-established role of vitamin K is to add carbon dioxide to proteins and thereby give them the ability to bind calcium. Since the carboxyl group is added to the third carbon of the glutamate sidechain, known as the gamma (𝛄) carbon, the process is known as 𝛄-carboxylation. Once modified in this way, glutamate becomes 𝛄-carboxyglutamate and is abbreviated “Gla.” Thus, vitamin K-dependent proteins often have the term “Gla” in their names. The figure below shows vitamin K-dependent 𝛄-carboxylation in more detail. A. The general structure of an amino acid, featuring a carboxyl group (COOH) on the right. B. At the pH range that prevails within the human body, carboxyl groups often ionize, giving them a negative charge. C. Glutamate. Moving from the central carbon through each carbon of the side chain, we label the carbons alpha (α), beta (β), and gamma (ɣ). Since the side chain carboxyl group is attached to the ɣ carbon, it is known as a ɣ-carboxyl group. D. ɣ-carboxylation. The vitamin K carboxylase uses vitamin K as a cofactor to add carbon dioxide to the ɣ carbon of the glutamate residue side chain. This converts glutamate, abbreviated Glu, to ɣ-carboxylglutamate, abbreviated Gla. The second ɣ-carboxyl group gives the side chain a second negative charge, which improves its ability to bind to calcium, which carries a positive charge. Although ionic calcium is shown in the figure, some vitamin K-dependent proteins bind to calcium salts rather than calcium ions. There are a wide variety of vitamin K-dependent proteins made in different tissues that fulfill different functions but that all undergo the same process of 𝛄-carboxylation. In each case, calcium-binding is essential for the protein’s activities. However, the role that calcium-binding plays is different for different proteins. We have known about the importance of vitamin K for blood clotting since the 1930s (Suttie, 2014). Blood clotting is regulated by a variety of proteins known as clotting factors that are all made in the liver and sent out into the blood, where they circulate in inactive form until blood vessel damage makes clotting necessary. In the clotting factors, vitamin K-dependent 𝛄-carboxylation allows calcium to serve as a structural “glue” that binds the protein into an active shape. Initially, we only knew that vitamin K was necessary to the function of prothrombin, the precursor to thrombin, which activates fibrinogen to fibrin to form blood clots. We now know that vitamin K is also needed for properly functioning factors VII, IX, and X, which are pro-coagulant proteins involved in the conversion of prothrombin to thrombin. Vitamin K is just as necessary for the function of proteins S and C, which act as anticoagulants by inactivating other clotting factors that are not dependent on vitamin K, factors V and VIII. There is a seventh vitamin K-dependent plasma protein, protein Z, that may have additional anticoagulant functions. Thus, vitamin K is required for the proper function of both procoagulants and anticoagulants within the clotting cascade and serves as a raw material necessary for the proper regulation of blood clotting rather than serving as a coagulant or an anticoagulant itself. Vitamin K is necessary for the carboxylation of osteocalcin, a protein produced in bone and also sometimes referred to as bone Gla protein. In this case, vitamin K-dependent 𝛄-carboxylation allows osteocalcin to bind to the calcified extracellular matrix of bone tissue (Koshihara, 1997). Scientists first discovered osteocalcin in the 1970s. Since it was made in bone, most scientists in the field assumed that it played an important role in mineralizing bone or in regulating the turnover of bone mineral or the structural organization of bone. In the 1990s, however, scientists produced the osteocalcin-knockout mouse, which is genetically modified to lack the gene that codes for osteocalcin. Osteocalcin knockout mice have no obvious defects in any measures of bone health. Their bones are adequately mineralized, and although their structural architecture is slightly different than that of normal mice, one study found their bones were stronger than those of normal mice (Ducy, 1996) and the worst that could be said about their bone architecture was that it seemed “less mature” than that of normal mice (Boskey, 1998). For three decades, the role of osteocalcin was elusive and the statements made about its function were vague and unconvincing. In 2007, things began to change (Lee, 2007). The scientists who had developed the osteocalcin knockout mouse began more intensively investigating their phenotype and publishing papers about their metabolic and hormonal health. And here, unlike in bone, the effects of osteocalcin are dramatic. Osteocalcin knockout mice are fat, deficient in insulin (like type 1 diabetics), insensitive to insulin (like type 2 diabetics), and they have low metabolic rates and high blood sugar. The males are also infertile and have low testosterone (Oury, 2011). Surprisingly, all of this is reversed with undercarboxylated osteocalcin rather than fully carboxylated osteocalcin. Undercarboxylated osteocalcin is produced by bone when vitamin K status is inadequate, and its circulation in serum had been interpreted as a sign of vitamin K inadequacy right up through the publication of these papers. In fact, some vitamin K researchers argue that it should still be used in this way, adding controversy to the implications of the osteocalcin knockout mouse studies (Booth, 2013). I believe the best way to reconcile these conflicting ideas is as follows: vitamin K-dependent 𝛄-carboxylation of osteocalcin takes place in osteoblasts and allows the carboxylated osteocalcin (cOCN) to leave the osteoblasts and accumulate in bone matrix, which is its proper site of storage. During bone resorption, osteoclasts produce acid that decarboxylates osteocalcin and releases it into the serum in its undercarboxylated form (ucOCN) (Ferron, 2007; Oury, 2013). From there, it acts on multiple tissues to improve insulin secretion, insulin sensitivity, blood glucose, the metabolic rate, body composition, and, in males, testosterone production and fertility. This is illustrated in the figure below. Vitamin K is necessary for the carboxylation of matrix Gla protein (MGP), which is made primarily in vascular smooth muscle cells and chondrocytes (cartilage cells) (Luo, 1997). Wherever there is a blood supply, there is MGP, so MGP is made throughout the body. In this case, vitamin K-dependent 𝛄-carboxylation allows MGP to bind calcium so that it can prevent calcium from going into the wrong places, like into the kidneys and blood vessels, and help it go into the right places, like the extracellular matrix of bones and teeth. MGP appears to act primarily by limiting the formation of calcium salts. This helps prevent pathological calcification of soft tissues (tissues other than the bones and teeth). For example, MGP protects against kidney stones and against the calcification of blood vessels that occurs in heart disease. Bone has a complex protein infrastructure that becomes mineralized through the entry of very small calcium phosphate salts from blood. By limiting the size of these salts (Price, 2009), MGP helps them penetrate bone matrix and support its mineralization. MGP also supports growth during infancy, childhood, and adolescence by preventing premature calcification of the cartilage that helps bones to become larger. These roles of MGP are illustrated in the figure below.
As described below, different forms of vitamin K reach different tissues to different degrees, so some forms better support some of the health outcomes discussed above than others. However, all the roles described above can be fulfilled by any form of vitamin K able to reach the relevant tissues. By contrast, MK-4 is a subform of vitamin K2 that has a unique role in regulating gene expression (Ichikawa, 2007; Ito, 2011). The mechanisms involved are unclear: some studies show that it binds to the steroid X receptor (SXR), while others show that it regulates gene expression through SXR-independent mechanisms. One of those mechanisms is to stimulate the phosphorylation of protein kinase A (PKA), but how it does this is also unclear: some studies show that it increases cyclic AMP (cAMP), a traditional PKA activator, while other studies show it activates PKA independently from cAMP. In other words, we know that MK-4 regulates gene expression, but we have a lot to learn about how it does this. Through its regulation of gene expression, MK-4 favors bone growth, protects against cancer, and increases the production of sex hormones. There are a variety of other vitamin K-dependent proteins whose functions are less clearly understood (Suttie, 2014). These include the following: Gla-rich protein, which accumulates in soft tissues during pathological calcification; periostin, which may be necessary for growth; Gas6, which promotes cell survival, and, along with protein S, helps clear away the debris of dead cells (for example, in atherosclerosis, where accumulating debris of dying cells causes a dangerous inflammatory state); and a family of four transmembrane Gla-rich proteins may act as cell surface receptors. Vitamin K also supports the production of important sulfur-based lipids known as sulfatides in the brain, and accumulates in the mitochondrion where it may play a direct role in the electron transport chain, as it has been shown to do in fruit flies (Vos, 2012). We can have varying degrees of confidence in different health benefits attributed to vitamin K. In this section, I refer generally to vitamin K. I discuss the difference between vitamins K1 and K2 below. This section is meant to be readable on its own, but if you don’t have a background in the biochemistry of vitamin K, it will be helpful to read the biochemistry section first. The only incontrovertible effect of vitamin K is to support blood clotting (Suttie, 2014). On this basis, vitamin K is used to prevent hemorrhage in infants and inhibitors of vitamin K recycling such as warfarin and other 4-hydroxycoumarins are used as the principle anticoagulant therapy. Genetic deficiencies in vitamin K-dependent clotting factors lead to well characterized coagulation disorders, and otherwise fatal cases of bleeding can be rescued with fully carboxylated clotting factors. Thus, there is no room for a reasonable person to doubt this role of vitamin K. Vitamin K supports the carboxylation of matrix Gla protein (MGP), which controls the distribution of calcium in the body and thereby supports the mineralization of bones and teeth, prevents the pathological calcification of soft tissues such as the heart, blood vessels, and kidneys, and supports growth during early development by preventing the premature calcification of growth plates. These roles are most clearly demonstrated in the MGP knockout mouse (Luo, 1997). It has short stature because of calcified growth plates, suffers from osteopenia and spontaneous fractures, and dies within two months due to the rupture of heavily calcified blood vessels. In other words, calcium fails to go into the right places (bone) and instead goes into all the wrong places (blood vessels and the growth plate cartilage). The evidence that MGP plays the same role in humans is extensive, and the sections below discuss that evidence in the context of each specific health benefit. The evidence for the importance of vitamin K in heart health is compelling. Uncarboxylated MGP accumulates in atherosclerotic plaque in proportion to the amount of calcium deposited in the plaque (Roijers, 2011) and circulates in plasma in proportion to the severity of vascular calcification (Schurgers, 2010; Dalmeijer, 2013). Inhibitors of vitamin K recycling such as warfarin and other 4-hydroxycoumarins worsen blood vessel calcification in patients at risk for heart disease (Zhang, 2014). People who consume more vitamin K2 in the diet have a lower risk of heart disease (Geleijnse, 2004; Gast, 2009; Buelens, 2009; Zwakenberg, 2016). Two different randomized controlled trials lasting three years support the role of vitamin K in heart health: one showed that vitamin K1 prevents the worsening of arterial calcification (Shea, 2009) and the other showed that vitamin K2 reduces arterial stiffness (Knapen, 2015). The first randomized controlled trial using vitamin K2 to prevent or reverse arterial calcification is currently underway and will likely be finished by 2018 (Vossen, 2015). Thus, a wide array of observational and experimental evidence in humans agrees that dietary vitamin K supports heart health. A number of randomized controlled trials from Japan have shown that a very high pharmacological dose (45 mg/day) of vitamin K2 as MK-4 exerts powerful protection against fracture risk in women with osteoporosis (Iwamoto, 2013). However, this pharmacological dose is far higher than what anyone could obtain from food, so its effects cannot be generalized to K2-rich foods or supplements using nutritionally relevant doses. The question is whether nutritional doses, which I would define as those under one milligram per day, offer meaningful support to bone health. Observational studies have associated the use of vitamin K antagonists as anticoagulants with lower bone mineral density (Caraballo, 1999) and have associated self-reported vitamin K intake with higher bone mineral density (Macdonald, 2008; Kim, 2015) and a lower risk of hip fracture (Apalset, 2011). Similarly, intake of natto, the richest source of vitamin K2, is associated with less bone loss over time in postmenopasual women (Ikeda, 2006). There are several randomized controlled trials (RCTs) using nutritional (100-200 μg/d) or borderline nutritional (1.5 mg/d) doses of vitamin K that suggest improvements in bone health, but they are not consistently convincing. Some show the improvement only in the lumbar spine (lower back) (Inoue, 2001; Moschonis, 2011; Kanellakis, 2012), and others only in the forearm (Koitaya, 2014; Bolton-Smith, 2007); one claims a benefit on the basis that bone health got worse in the control group or better in the vitamin K group without any difference between the two groups at the end of the study (Koitaya, 2014); and none of them report an improvement in whole body BMD or a decrease in the risk of fracture. Among all of the RCTs, the most convincing one showed that three years of 180 μg/d vitamin K2 as MK-7 improved several measures of bone health in postmenopausal women when compared to a placebo (Knapen, 2013). Bone mineral density and bone mineral content both increased at the lumbar spine (lower back) and femoral neck (the “ball” that fits into the hip “socket”), although not at the hip itself. Estimates of bone strength improved, and less shrinkage occurred in the height of the thoracic spine (mid-back). Although the number of fractures was too small for statistical tests, six subjects in the placebo group but only one subject in the vitamin K group suffered vertebral fractures. This latter finding hints at a possibly very large reduction in the risk of fracture, but a larger study with sufficient numbers of fractures for statistical tests would be needed to confirm it. The benefits to bone health in this study did not occur until the third year. Most other trials have only been one year long. Thus, while the RCTs are not in perfect agreement, the data are consistent with a powerful effect of vitamin K that takes several years to manifest. Future studies should be larger, at least three years long, and compare different doses and forms of vitamin K in different contexts to improve our understanding of how to best take advantage of this vitamin for bone health. For now, the principle is sufficiently compelling to consider it likely over time that optimizing vitamin K intake is likely to provide meaningful benefits to bone health. Vitamin K is centrally important to oral health. The salivary glands contain the second highest concentration of vitamin K2 within the body (Thijssen, 1994), and both vitamin K2 (Glavind, 1948) and vitamin K-dependent proteins (Zacharski, 1979) are secreted into saliva. Dentin, the tissue underneath the enamel, produces both osteocalcin and MGP (Trueb, 2007). Between 1945 and 1946, two studies tested the ability of menadione-laced chewing gum to protect against dental cavities in humans (Burrill, 1945; Mäkilä, 1968). Menadione is a precursor to the MK-4 form of vitamin K2, but it also has direct antibacterial effects. One study showed it was effective but the second failed to replicate the findings and the topic was largely forgotten thereafter. At the time, researchers thought any effect of menadione would be a result of its antibacterial activity. A study published in the 1950s, however, found that menadione prevented tooth decay in hamsters more effectively when injected into their abdominal cavities than when given orally (Gebauer, 1955). While it’s possible that some of the abdominally injected menadione made it into the saliva where it would have direct antibacterial activity, a more likely interpretation is that the abdominally injected menadione protected against tooth decay through its conversion to vitamin K2. This conversion is variable between and even within species, and variation in the ability of humans to make the conversion could have contributed to the conflicting findings with menadione-laced chewing gum. While no studies have yet clearly shown dietary or supplemental vitamin K to improve dental health, this is most likely a result of the dental field largely ignoring any role for nutrition in the prevention of tooth decay beyond the role of carbohydrates in promoting bacterial acid production. The ubiquity of vitamin K and its proteins in the tissues of the mouth makes its importance clear, and what we need to move forward are clinical studies that take its role seriously. Human kidneys contain high concentrations of vitamin K2 (Thijssen, 1996) and use it to activate MGP . By the mid-1980s, we knew that a vitamin K-dependent protein isolated from patients with kidney stones, presumably MGP, was between four and twenty times less effective at preventing the growth of calcium oxalate crystals compared to the same protein isolated from healthy patients (Vermeer, 1986). Patients on renal dialysis have very high circulating levels of inactive MGP, and vitamin K2 supplementation dose-dependently improves its activation (Caluwé, 2014). Observational studies show that patients who consume more than the recommended intake of vitamin K spend less time on dialysis (Boxma, 2012) and have improved survival (Cheung, 2015). These results suggest that patients with kidney disease have very high needs for vitamin K, but it is unclear whether vitamin K deficiency is a primary contributor to the initial development of kidney disease and so far no clinical trials have shown that vitamin K supplementation can prevent, treat, or reverse the disease. Still, it seems promising that optimizing vitamin K status could be a valuable prophylactic and seems advisable for renal patients to, with medical supervision, supplement with doses shown to improve MGP activation. When used during pregnancy, vitamin K antagonists interfere with the growth of bone and cartilage in the fetus, especially the maxilla and nose, leading to underdevelopment of the middle third of the face (Howe, 1997). Growing children and adolescents likely have a high demand for vitamin K. In boys and girls between the ages of 10-14, fracture risk increases to such an extent that a 14-year-old boy has the same risk as a 53-year-old woman (Saggese, 2002). This is accompanied by very high levels of undercarboxylated osteocalcin, ranging from 11 to 83 percent of total osteocalcin (O’Connor, 2007; van Summeren, 2007; van Summeren, 2008). Whether improved intake of vitamin K can reverse the fracture risk or improve the rate of growth remains to be seen, but should be regarded as plausible. Vitamin K plays two known roles in metabolic and hormonal health: one is to support the function of osteocalcin, an endocrine hormone produced by bone tissue, and the other is to support the production of sex hormones through the regulation of gene expression. The role of osteocalcin is most clearly supported by osteocalcin knockout mice: they are obese and have low metabolic rates, high blood sugar, poor insulin sensitivity, deficient levels of insulin and males have low testosterone and infertility (Lee, 2007; Oury, 2011). The role of gene expression is most clearly supported by cellular experiments that have characterized the related mechanisms and by a study showing that vitamin K increases the expression of the enzyme that converts cholesterol to pregnenolone in rats (Ito, 2011). Pregnenolone is the precursor to all of the steroid hormones, including all of the sex hormones, and vitamin K’s support of pregnenolone synthesis increases testosterone in male rats. To date, the targets of vitamin K’s regulation of gene expression are poorly characterized and they may impact sex hormones beyond simply increasing pregnenolone synthesis. Direct evidence that vitamin K supports these roles in humans is limited, but there are key reasons to believe that it does. The sections below discuss the human evidence in the context of each specific health benefit. A rare genetic defect in what appears to be the osteocalcin receptor results in fasting hyperinsulinemia and postprandial glucose intolerance, suggesting that osteocalcin plays the same role in metabolic health in humans as it does in mice (Oury, 2013). As noted below, this genetic defect also results in low testosterone. Several randomized controlled trials have shown that 1 milligram of vitamin K1 (Rasehki, 2015 a; Rasehki, 2015 b) or 30-90 mg of vitamin K2 as MK-4 (Choi, 2011; Sakamoto, 2000) given daily for one to four weeks improves a variety of markers of glucose and insulin metabolism. From among these, the trial most relevant to nutritional doses of vitamin K (Rasheki, 2015 a; Rasheki, 2015 b) compared 1 mg/day of K1 to a placebo over four weeks and found that it lowered glucose and insulin levels postprandially (after a glucose tolerance test) but not in the fasting state. It also increased adiponectin, supporting the mechanism outlined in animal experiments whereby osteocalcin is released from bone and acts on adipose tissue to increase adiponectin, which then acts on other tissues such as muscle and liver to increase insulin sensitivity. As described in the section on different vitamin K forms below, while certain forms of vitamin K2 may more effectively reach bone than K1, K1 does reach bone in substantial amounts, and the dose used in the Rasehki study was high. No one has yet compared nutritional doses of K1 to other forms of vitamin K, but we could predict that the forms that reach bone most effectively, such as MK-7, could prove even more effective. The authors of these studies have generally argued that their results contradict the animal experiments rather than supporting them. The animal experiments show that osteocalcin has to be in its undercarboxylated state to improve metabolic and hormonal health, and these supplementation trials have shown what has already been well established, that vitamin K increases the carboxylated form and decreases the undercarboxylated form. However, the animal experiments provide a view that is much more nuanced than “undercarboxylated good, carboxylated bad.” Vitamin K is needed to “prime” osteocalcin by allowing it to accumulate in bone matrix; bone decarboxylates it and releases it in response to specific stimuli, one of which is exercise. Vitamin K deficiency causes a continuous, slow, unregulated leak of undercarboxylated osteocalcin into the blood. Supplying vitamin K to bone allows bone to properly store the hormone and release it at the right time. While we need to learn more about osteocalcin physiology to completely reconcile all of these findings, the evidence that both vitamin K and osteocalcin are critical to metabolic health is strong. A rare genetic defect in what appears to be the osteocalcin receptor results in low testosterone in men, suggesting that osteocalcin plays the same role in sex hormone production in humans as it does in mice (Oury, 2013). As noted above, this genetic defect also results in poor metabolic health. Evidence that vitamin K optimizes sex hormones in humans is limited, but a recent randomized controlled trial in women with polycystic ovarian syndrome (PCOS) provides intriguing results (Razavi, 2016). PCOS is a condition involving insulin resistance and high levels of androgens (hormones that should be high in males and low in females). Compared to a placebo, a cocktail of vitamin D (400 IU), calcium, (1000 mg), and vitamin K2 (180 μg, as MK-7) taken over the course of nine weeks cut the levels of androgens in half. This could have been a result of osteocalcin-mediated improvements in insulin sensitivity, gene expression-mediated improvements in sex hormone production, or some combination of these mechanisms. The use of a nutritional cocktail precludes a definitive conclusion about the effect of vitamin K itself or how it would act alone, but the possibility that vitamin K has such a powerful effect on sex hormone optimization is promising. Cell experiments suggest that the MK-4 subform of vitamin K2 protects against cancer through its regulation of gene expression (Shearer, 2014). In 2004, a randomized controlled trial provided an incredible demonstration of this effect in humans: in women with viral cirrhosis, supplementation with 45 miligrams per day of MK-4 reduced the risk of liver cancer by over 80 percent over the course of 8 years (Habu, 2004). Other trials have looked at the ability of the same exact treatment regimen to reduce the recurrence of liver cancer in people who had already recovered from it once. A meta-analysis examined five of these trials and found that vitamin K2 reduced the recurrence of liver cancer by 29-34% at two and three years (Riaz, 2012). These results are less dramatic than those of the 2004 paper, but the trials were much shorter. Even in the 2004 paper, the effect of K2 at 2-3 years was small and only became large in years four through eight of the study. Thus, it may be that this treatment is highly protective against liver cancer when carried out over a long enough duration. The dose of MK-4 used in these studies is hundreds of times what any of us could expect to get from food. Unfortunately, we don’t know if such a high dose was actually needed. In other words, perhaps the first 200 micrograms of that dose (the first 0.44%) got rid of 80 percent of the cancer and the rest of the dose did nothing. Alternatively, it could be that such high doses have pharmacological effects that amounts of MK-4 found in food do not have. In that case, obtaining vitamin K2 from food could be irrelevant to cancer. Observational studies offer some limited support for the importance of K2 from foods: the EPIC-Heidelberg study found that German men who consumed more than 46 micrograms per day of K2 were almost two-thirds less likely to develop advanced prostate cancer and lung cancer as those consuming less than 26 micrograms per day (Nimptsch, 2008; Nimptsch, 2010). Thus, data from cell experiments, observational studies, and randomized controlled trials agree that vitamin K2 protects against cancer, but differences in the doses used and the types of cancer investigated leaves many open questions to be investigated by future research. Click here to close the detailed explanation.The Biochemistry Underlying the Health Benefits of Vitamin K2
Vitamin K-dependent 𝛄-Carboxylation
The Role of Vitamin K in Blood Clotting
The Role of Osteocalcin in Metabolic and Hormonal Health
Most recently, the release of undercarboxylated osteocalcin from bone was shown to increase during exercise and play a role in allowing skeletal muscle to increase its utilization of energy (Mera, 2016). Exercising skeletal muscle secretes interleukin-6 (IL-6), which increases the release of undercarboxylated osteocalcin (ucOCN) from bone. ucOCN stimulates muscle to release more IL-6, and they amplify one another in a positive feedback loop. IL-6 acts on liver to release glucose and adipose tissue to release free fatty acids. IL-6 and ucOCN act on skeletal muscle to increase the uptake of glucose and fatty acids and increase their utilization for energy. This is illustrated in the figure below.
Matrix Gla Protein (MGP) Regulation of Calcium Distribution
MK-4 and Gene Expression
Other Functions of Vitamin K
Evidence For the Health Benefits Of Vitamin K2
Evidence for the Role of Vitamin K in Blood Clotting
Evidence for the Role of Vitamin K in Controlling Calcium Distribution
Evidence for the Role of Vitamin K in Heart Health
Evidence for the Role of Vitamin K in Bone Health
Evidence for the Role of Vitamin K in Dental Health
Evidence for the Role of Vitamin K in Kidney Health
Evidence for the Role of Vitamin K in Growth
Evidence for the Role of Vitamin K in Metabolic and Hormonal Health
Evidence for the Role of Vitamin K in Metabolic Health
Evidence for the Role of Vitamin K in Sex Hormone Optimization
Evidence for the Role of Vitamin K in Cancer
Why the Form of Vitamin K You Eat Is So Important
Vitamin K comes in different forms. Vitamin K1 is primarily found in plant foods and is most abundant in leafy greens. Vitamin K2 is only found in animal foods and fermented plant foods. The term “vitamin K2 ” actually refers to a collection of more specific forms known as menaquinones that are all abbreviated “MK” with a specific number attached: for example, MK-4, MK-7, MK-10, and so on.
Does it matter whether you eat one form or another? Absolutely. There are two reasons for this, so let’s deal with them one at a time.
First, once we eat foods with vitamin K in them, our bodies handle the different forms differently. Consider these examples:
- Vitamin K1 travels to our livers more effectively than it does to our bones or blood vessels. The liver is where we use vitamin K to make the proteins involved in blood clotting, so vitamin K1 is better at supporting blood clotting than it is at providing other health benefits.
- MK-7 is much more effective than K1 at reaching bone. This doesn’t just make it good for bones: our bones use vitamin K to produce a hormone known as osteocalcin, which improves metabolic and hormonal health and increases exercise performance. Thus, MK-7 better supports these health benefits than K1 . The portion of MK-7 that reaches the liver, moreover, stays active in the liver much longer than K1 before being broken down; as a result, MK-7 is even better than K1 at supporting blood clotting.
- MK-4 is taken up by our tissues very rapidly after we consume it. While it hasn’t been studied as carefully as MK-7, it may be less effective than MK-7 at reaching liver and bone but more effective at reaching most other tissues. This would make it better at protecting those tissues from calcium deposits and cancer development and supporting sex hormone production through its direct actions within our sex organs.
Overall, then, the collection of different vitamin K2 compounds better supports all the health benefits listed above than vitamin K1 because they better reach the tissues that matter.
These concepts are illustrated in the shareable infographic below.
The second reason the form of vitamin K matters is that MK-4 regulates gene expression in specific ways that no other form of vitamin K does. While we tend to think of our genes as the destiny we inherited from our parents, it’s actually how they are expressed — meaning, what our cells do with the information carried by those genes — that determines our health. MK-4 turns on some genes and turns others off. For example, in our sex organs, it turns on the genes involved in sex hormone production. In a wide variety of cells, it turns on the genes that keep cells healthy and turns off the genes that make cells become cancerous. Thus, MK-4 plays an exclusive role in cancer protection and sexual health.
This special role of MK-4 probably explains why all animals break down other forms of vitamin K and convert them to MK-4. By contrast, no animal synthesizes any other form of vitamin K. This explains why MK-4 is mostly found in animal foods, and why most unfermented animal foods contain little if any of the other forms.
As humans, we also convert other forms of vitamin K to MK-4. This raises the question, do we really need to consume MK-4 directly if we can make it ourselves? My answer is yes.
There are three reasons we shouldn’t rely on the conversion:
- First, we don’t actually know that much about how the conversion takes place, but it seems to be inefficient and highly variable according to genetics and health status, making it unreliable.
- Second, cholesterol-lowering statin drugs and certain osteoporosis drugs inhibit the conversion, making it even less reliable in people who are taking these drugs.
- Third, research shows vitamin K2 is better than vitamin K1 at supporting many different aspects of our health. If we easily converted as much K1 to K2 as we needed, we wouldn’t observe these superior benefits of K2.
These concepts are illustrated in the shareable infographic below.
The difference between K1 and K2 isn’t absolute. When we eat vitamin K1 some of it will reach tissues outside the liver and we will convert some of it to MK-4. But the real question is: what’s the best vitamin for the job? Vitamin K2 is clearly much better at supporting the health benefits discussed in this resource, so the resource is dedicated specifically to getting enough K2 in its diversity of forms.
The names “vitamin K1” and “vitamin K2” are artifacts of history (Suttie, 2014). The first form of vitamin K was found in alfalfa, so it was named K1. The second form was found in rotten fish, so it was named K2. As shown in the figure below, they both have the same ring structure, but different tail structures. The tail structures are known formally as side chains. Vitamin K1, now known as phylloquinone, has a mostly saturated tail. Vitamin K2, now known as menaquinone, has an unsaturated tail. Menaquinones are actually a class of compounds with varying tail lengths, designated MK-n, where “n” indicates the number of repeating units in the tail. The specific form of vitamin K2 found in rotten fish was MK-7. When later MKs were discovered, they all had unsaturated tails, so scientists classified them as subforms of vitamin K2. We now know that this is overly simplistic (Shearer, 2014). Some bacteria, such as those used to make Jarlsberg cheese, produce partially saturated menaquinones wherein some of the repeating subunits have double bonds and others don’t. For example, Jarlsberg is very rich in tetrahydromenaquinone-9, which is similar in structure to MK-9 except the second and third units of the tail are saturated. As Shearer (2014) pointed out, even phylloquinone has a double bond in the first unit of its tail and could be seen as a partially saturated form of MK-4. Thus, rather than forming two categories of K vitamins, it makes more sense to say that vitamin K comes in a wide diversity of forms that are distinguished by the length and saturation of their tails. While the ring structure is what allows vitamin K to support the vitamin K carboxylase, the enzyme that activates vitamin K-dependent proteins, the tail structure determines how different forms of vitamin K reach different tissues in the body. This all begins with how they are incorporated into lipoproteins soon after we absorb them from food. When we digest fat and fat-soluble nutrients, our intestines package them into lipoproteins known as chylomicrons, which take them through the lymph and into the bloodstream. This event critically distinguishes how water-soluble and fat-soluble nutrients are distributed through the body: water-soluble nutrients travel directly to the liver through the portal vein, while fat-soluble nutrients travel through the lymph in chylomicrons to bypass the liver and nourish the other tissues first. Chylomicrons, like all other lipoproteins, have to transport fat-soluble things through the water-based environment of the blood. Therefore, they are fat-soluble on the inside and water-soluble on the outside. While all K vitamins are fat-soluble, they are not all equally soluble in fat. Those with longer tails are more fat-soluble than those with shorter tails; for tails of equal length, saturated tails are more fat-soluble than unsaturated tails. K vitamins that are more fat-soluble are carried deeper in the core of chylomicrons, while those that are less fat-soluble are carried more toward the edges. Let’s take the three forms most commonly found in supplements as examples: K1, MK-4, and MK-7. We would expect to find MK-7 in the center of the chylomicron, MK-4 closer to the edges, and K1 in between the two (Schurgers and Vermeer, 2002). Chylomicrons move in and out of the bloodstream rapidly, with a half-life of 15-20 minutes (César, 2006). This means that once we eat a meal, 95% of the chylomicrons that enter our blood are fully cleared in the first hour. Very few tissues actually take up the whole chylomicron. Instead, most tissues use the enzyme lipoprotein lipase (LPL) to siphon off its nutrients bit by bit. While LPL is best known for feeding the heart, skeletal muscle, and adipose tissue, it also feeds other tissues such as the lungs, kidneys, mammary glands, and brain (Kersten, 2014). LPL spreads across the capillary beds that feed our great diversity of tissues, allowing widespread access to the fat-soluble nutrients we ingest in a meal. Presumably, these tissues all have greater access to the nutrients carried closer to the edges of the chylomicrons, such as MK-4. As these many tissues feast on the chylomicrons, the chylomicrons get smaller and smaller until they become chylomicron remnants. A small handful of tissues donate apolipoprotein E (ApoE) to the chylomicron remnants, and then use the LDL receptor and other related receptors to bind to the ApoE and take up the whole remnant. This allows them to score everything left in the particle right down to its chewy center. In this sense, ApoE is like the bait on a fishing line, and the receptor is like the hook. While the liver is best known for fishing out chylomicron remnants in this manner, our bones and spleen do as well. Our bones primarily derive nutrients through the uptake of whole lipoprotein particles, and take up about a fifth as many chylomicron remnants as our liver (Shearer, 2008). Thus, we should expect bone and liver to primarily have access to nutrients carried in the center of chylomicrons, including K1, but especially the MKs with longer tails, such as MK-7. This whole stream of events takes place largely in the first hour after a meal. The liver then repackages the lipids it took in from chylomicron remnants into other lipoproteins, primarily VLDL, which are sent back out into the blood. Tissues continue to siphon off nutrients using LPL. Just like chylomicrons had been digested into chylomicron remnants, VLDL particles are then digested into LDL particles until our tissues take up the LDL particles themselves. Unlike the rapid clearance of chylomicrons, clearance of LDL particles takes place slowly over the course of two weeks (Langer, 1972). Although the liver is the main tissue that takes up LDL, bone is also important; in fact, bone takes up vitamin K more effectively from LDL than from any other lipoprotein (Shearer, 2012). Thus, K vitamins that get packaged into LDL particles will have a second opportunity to nourish bone. Schurgers and Vermeer (2002) investigated how different K vitamins are transported using K1, MK-4, and MK-9. They fed six healthy males a mixture of one milligram of each form and took repeated blood measurements over four days, beginning at the two-hour mark. MK-4 had already peaked by the time the first blood draw was taken, when much of it was found in HDL, and disappeared most rapidly from the blood out of all the forms. K1 peaked at the four-hour mark, was mostly gone by eight hours, and disappeared by the end of the study. K1 was found almost exclusively in VLDL rather than in LDL or HDL. MK-9 peaked at the four-hour mark as well, but persisted in the blood for several days while carried in LDL particles. The authors suggested that MK-4 was taken up so quickly because it was carried toward the edges of the chylomicrons, making it easily accessible for LPL-mediated extraction, with the excess spilling over into HDL particles. Notably, we should expect the extended circulation of MK-9 in LDL to provide better nourishment to bone. Schurgers later collaborated with Sato (2012) to compare the bioavailability of MK-4 and MK-7 in healthy women. Compared to the 2002 study, they used less than half the dose of each vitamin and fed them separately rather than combined so that the total dose of vitamin K given at each point was over six times lower. Similar to the 2002 study, they took their first blood sample at two hours. They didn’t find MK-4 in the blood at any time point, whereas MK-7 remained elevated for two days. MK-4 vs. MK-7: What Do We Really Know? If we compare the results of the 2012 study to the earlier 2002 study, we can surmise that the dose of MK-4 in the 2012 study was low enough that the initial LPL feast in the first hour fully distributed it to a variety of tissues so that it was all gone by two hours, and that MK-7 circulated for such a long time because, like MK-9, it was redistributed in LDL particles. We should expect from this that MK-4 is good at nourishing most tissues, but not very good at nourishing liver or bone. By contrast, we should expect that MK-7 is good at nourishing the liver and even better at nourishing bone. At the present time, there is no direct support for this, but there are hints that it may be the case. Sato (2012) cited a Japanese paper as finding that 1.5 milligrams of MK-4, but not 500 μg, improved the carboxylation of osteocalcin. Not even the abstract seems to be available in English, so it is difficult to evaluate the study. Later, Nakamura (2014) showed that only 600 μg of MK-4 is needed, but in this study the researchers simply gave the same people higher and higher doses each week and waited for osteocalcin carboxylation to improve. For all we know, their lowest dose, 300 μg, would have worked if they had given it longer than a week. In seeming contrast to MK-4, MK-7 improves osteocalcin carboxylation with as little as 100 μg (Knapen, 2012; Inaba, 2015). Placing these studies side by side, they seem to suggest that improvements in osteocalcin carboxylation require much lower doses of MK-7 than of MK-4. However, the studies had different designs and were conducted in different populations that may have had different nutritional needs and different responses to vitamin K supplementation. In fact, Inaba (2015) fed MK-7 for four weeks while Nakamura (2014) only fed each dose of MK-4 for one week. This alone could explain the difference. To date, no one has compared the osteocalcin response to MK-4 and MK-7 head-to-head. On the other hand, MK-7 has been compared to K1. At equal doses, MK-7 is three times more potent than K1 at carboxylating osteocalcin (Schurgers, 2007). Osteocalcin is made in bone, so its carboxylation reflects vitamin K status in that tissue. Presumably, MK-7 is better than K1 because its recirculation in LDL particles for days after it is first taken up by the liver gives it much more opportunity to nourish bone. Since MK-4 likely has even less opportunity to reach bone than K1, MK-7 is probably superior to MK-4 for this purpose as well. What about other tissues? Unfortunately, we know even less about those. We know that large pharmacological doses of MK-4 given to rats (Konishi, 1973) or dogs (Sano, 1997) reach the lungs, liver, kidney, pancreas, spleen, adrenal gland, and bone very rapidly. Such large doses are also excreted into the feces in large amounts. More moderate nutritional doses could behave very differently, however, so it is difficult to form any conclusions from these studies. Until we have well designed trials comparing the ability of different MKs to support different health outcomes in humans, it makes sense to rely on what we know generally about how lipoproteins transport nutrients. This suggests K1 would best reach the liver, MKs 7-9 would best reach liver and bone, and MK-4 would best reach most other tissues. MK-7 Supports Blood Clotting Better Than K1 MK-7 is not just three times better than K1 at reaching bone; it’s also five times better at supporting blood clotting (Schurgers, 2007). This may be because the greater fat-solubility of MK-7 makes it hold on more tightly to the membranes within liver cells, making it stay active in the liver much longer rather than being released and broken down (Shearer, 2008). The liver is where clotting proteins are made, so more extended activity in the liver would explain why MK-7 could better support blood clotting. If this is correct, other long-chain MKs such as MK-8 and MK-9 probably share this property as well. MK-4 Plays a Unique Role in Gene Expression MK-4 is unique among the K vitamins in its regulation of gene expression. It increases the expression of genes that regulate cell growth in osteoblasts (the cells responsible for bone growth), but MK-7 and K1 do not (Ichikawa, 2007). MK-4 increases testosterone production when fed to male rats. Cellular experiments show that MK-4, but not K1, increases testosterone by increasing the expression of the enzyme that converts cholesterol to pregnenolone, which is the first step in sex hormone synthesis (Ito, 2011). MK-4 also inhibits the growth of various cancers of the liver, gut, and bone (Shearer, 2008). Remarkably, the gene that is now known to code for the enzyme that converts other K vitamins to MK-4, Ubiad1, was known years earlier as a tumor-suppressor gene (Shearer, 2014). Scientists observed that Ubiad1 was often silenced in tumors of the bladder, prostate, and kidney. Conversely, experimental overexpression of Ubiad1 inhibited the growth of prostate cancer cells. Since the enzyme that Ubiad1 codes for converts other K vitamins to MK-4, these results underscore that the anticancer properties of vitamin K belong specifically to MK-4. Can We Rely on the Conversion of Other K Vitamins to MK-4? When we consume any form of vitamin K, our intestinal cells break the side chains off of a small portion to yield the pure ring structure, known as menadione (Thijssen, 2006). Menadione then disperses through the body to many tissues that convert it to MK-4 for their own use by adding MK-4’s characteristic four-unit unsaturated side chain (Hirota, 2013). We have known that animals synthesize MK-4 from other K vitamins for over a half century. It has been clear throughout that time, however, that the conversion varies widely. Early experiments, for example, showed that birds made the conversion better than rats and pigeons made it better than other birds (Billeter, 1960). Among rats, Wistar rats (Thijssen, 1994) seem to make the conversion better than Lewis rats (Ronden, 1998). Since the conversion varies between and within species, we should not assume that we as humans can make the conversion efficiently and consistently enough to meet our needs. And just how good are we at this conversion? We really don’t know, but it stands to reason that it varies from person to person. Rare genetic defects in Ubiad1 have been identified (Yellore, 2007), and cancer is associated with epigenetic silencing of Ubiad1 (Woolston, 2015). Other genes involved in the conversion likely vary from person to person as well, but we don’t yet know what they are. One of them may be vitamin K epoxide oxidoreductase (VKOR), the target of warfarin. The normal role of VKOR is to reduce vitamin K that has been oxidized, and we know that menadione must be in a reduced state to undergo conversion to MK-4. Indeed, warfarin prevents the conversion of K1 to MK-4 in rats (Spronk, 2003). Genetic polymorphisms in VKOR are common (Shearer, 2012), and could hypothetically contribute to variation in MK-4 synthesis. We still do not know what enzyme is responsible for cleaving the side chain within our intestinal cells, and that could be polymorphic as well. However good or bad humans may naturally be at the conversion, many people are taking medications that inhibit it (Hirota, 2015). Lipophilic statins such as lovastatin and simvastatin (and presumably atorvastatin, branded as Lipitor) inhibit the conversion. So do nitrogen-containing bisphosphonates such as alendronate (Fosamax) and zolendronate (Zometa), and presumably other nitrogenous bisphosphates as well. Ubiad1 expression depends on zinc (Funahashi, 2015) and its enzymatic activity depends on magnesium (Hirota, 2015), suggesting that deficiencies of either of these minerals could also compromise the conversion. Finally, if we converted other K vitamins to MK-4 on a “however much we need to” basis, then it shouldn’t matter what type of vitamin K we consume at all. All forms of vitamin K generate some menadione in the intestine that can be converted to MK-4 in other tissues. Whether the menadione comes from K1, MK-4, MK-7, or any other form of vitamin K cannot make any difference in its tissue distribution. Humans accumulate MK-4 in multiple organs including the heart, lung, brain, liver, kidney, and pancreas (Thijssen, 1996). Thus, if there are no major limitations on the conversion besides our need for it, K1 should be perfectly capable of supplying these tissues with all the MK-4 they need, especially in populations that have high K1 intakes. Yet this does not seem to be what we find. Consider the Dutch population, where this has been investigated most extensively. K1 intakes are eight times higher than K2 intakes, yet only K2 intake is inversely correlated with heart disease (Geleijnse, 2004; Gast, 2009; Buelens, 2009; Zwakenberg, 2016). In Germany, K1 intakes are about three times higher than K2 intakes, yet only K2 intake is inversely correlated with advanced prostate cancer (Nimptsch, 2008) and lung cancer (Nimptsch, 2010). These observational studies don’t offer clear evidence of cause-and-effect relationships and they don’t show correlations with health endpoints that are specific to MK-4. However, they do add to the list of reasons to believe that our ability to synthesize MK-4 is limited by much more than our specific need for MK-4 itself, and by much more than our general need for vitamin K in the tissues that unconverted K1 has a hard time reaching. In other words, many of us probably need more MK-4 than we can make on our own, and that’s a good reason to eat foods that provide it. Altogether, the evidence suggests that the form of vitamin K we consume matters, and that we are best served by a diversity of K vitamins from leafy greens, animal foods, and fermented foods. Click here to close the detailed explanation.The Many Forms of Vitamin K
Side Chain Length and Saturation Determines Tissue Distribution
How Much Vitamin K2 Do We Need?
Currently, there are no official recommendations about vitamin K2. In the United States, the current recommendation for total vitamin K is 90 μg per day for adults. In a typical diet, most of this would come from K2. These recommendations were last updated in 2001, before we learned about most of the benefits of K2. In fact, the USDA did not even develop a database of vitamin K2 in foods until 2006. My recommendation, therefore, does not rely on official sources and is meant for health-conscious people who wish to take advantage of cutting-edge research.
Based on the current state of that research, I recommend 100-200 μg per day of vitamin K2 for healthy adults. Although most of the benefit probably comes from the first 100 μg, 200 μg is harmless and may provide additional benefit. If your health is fantastic while maintaining a K2intake close to 100 μg, I would not worry about increasing your intake. But if you could stand to gain from the wide array of health benefits provided by the vitamin, I would use food or supplements to bring your intake closer to 200 μg.
Patients with chronic kidney disease may require doses as high as 480 μg per day and possibly much higher, but the use of high doses to treat a disease should always be done under medical supervision.
Patients using warfarin (Coumadin) or any other anticoagulant medications related to it should not make any changes to their vitamin K intake, regardless of the specific form of vitamin K, whether from food or supplements, except under the strict supervision of the prescribing physician (see below).
Another way to ask this question is as follows: what is the minimum effective dose to achieve the maximal desired effect? While there is no established toxicity for high doses, there are good reasons to be cautious before taking far more than we need (see below), hence the term “minimum effective dose.” At the same time, we don’t want to reap just some of the health benefit. We want to reap as much of the health benefit as we can in a safe and effective manner, hence the term “maximal desired effect.” The only rigorous way to approach this is to look at dose-finding studies, which are studies where different doses were directly compared with one another. Ideally, the studies are randomized, controlled, long enough in duration to believe the dose was able to achieve its full effect, and conducted within a context where we would expect to see a benefit. A Japanese dose-finding study compared 15, 45, 90, and 135 milligrams per day (mg/d) of MK-4 to reduce fracture risk in postmenopausal women with osteoporosis and found 45 mg/d to be the minimal effective dose (Iwamoto, 2013). This is a pharmacological dose that is hundreds of times greater than what can be obtained from food. It probably works through mechanisms that are independent of the those seen for nutritional doses of vitamin K, such as overriding the body’s natural regulation of bone resorption. Thus, we should view MK-4 at these doses with the same type of cost-benefit analysis we would use for other osteoporosis drugs, like Fosamax, and we should not use these studies to determine the optimal nutritional dose of MK-4. Unfortunately, there is a dearth of dose-response studies for nutritional doses of MK-4. Nakamura (2014) compared the effect of 0, 300, 600, 900, and 1500 micrograms per day (μg/d) on osteocalcin carboxylation, a marker of vitamin K status in bone. They fed everyone the same doses in the same order, increasing the dose from 0 one week at a time. The carboxylation status did not change with 300 μg/d, but improved with 600 μg/d. However, it is not at all clear that 300 μg/d would not have provided the same benefit if given for longer than one week. I do not consider this study to offer any clear insight about the optimal dose of MK-4. Dalmeijer (2012) compared 180 and 360 μg/d MK-7 to a placebo given to healthy, non-obese men and postmenopausal women aged 40-65 years over the course of twelve weeks. The mean K2 intake from food was 25 μg/d, so these treatments effectively compared total K2 intakes of 25, 200, and 380 μg/d. Both treatment doses lowered desphospho-uncarboxylated MGP (dp-ucMGP), a marker of vitamin K deficiency in blood vessels, and improved the carboxylation status of osteocalcin. While 360 μg seemed to cause a slightly larger effect than 180 μg, the lion’s share of benefit came from 180 μg and the difference between the two doses was not statistically significant. Thus, the study hints at a possible benefit of doses higher than 200 μg that would have to be confirmed in future studies with greater statistical power, but provides rigorous evidence only that 200 μg is better than 25 μg. Knapen (2012) reported a more extensive array of doses given to healthy men and premenopausal women aged 25-45 over the course of twelve weeks. The doses included 0, 10, 20, 45, 90, 180, and 360 μg/d MK-7 and the primary endpoint of interest reported was the carboxylation status of osteocalcin. Unfortunately, the sample size (n=42) was small for having so many groups, precluding a rigorous statistical analysis of the endpoints between each group. Additionally, while carboxylated osteocalcin levels were similar across groups at baseline, undercarboxylated osteocalcin levels were highly variable. The changes in undercarboxylated osteocalcin between baseline and the study’s end within any given group were generally about the same size as the difference in baseline values between groups. All of this makes it extremely difficult to know whether the the difference between groups for changes in undercarboxylated osteocalcin or its ratio to total osteocalcin are true biological differences or simply random variation resulting from noisy data. Doses that were 90 μg/d or greater caused statistically significant decreases in undercarboxylated osteocalcin, but only the 180 μg and 360 μg doses increased the levels of carboxylated osteocalcin or improved the ratio. From among these measurements, the increase in carboxylated osteocalcin seen with the two higher doses is most convincing because the variation in baseline values for that measurement was so low. The ending values for this measurement were higher in the 180 and 360 μg groups than in any of the the others, but they were nearly identical between groups. K2 intake from food was not reported, but presumably would have added at least 20 μg/d to the doses. I therefore consider this study to offer limited support to 200 μg/d as the optimum dose for improving vitamin K status at bone. Inaba (2015) compared 0, 50, 100, and 200μg/d MK-7 in postmenopausal women aged 50 to 69 years over the course of four weeks. The primary endpoint of interest was the carboxylation status of osteocalcin, reported as the ratio of the carboxylated to the undercarboxylated form. The study was conducted in Hokkaido, Japan, where natto is popular. The subjects were required to avoid all MK-7-rich foods and to consume prepared meals that provided 65 μg/d of total vitamin K as a combination of K1 and MK-4 in unspecified proportions. Whether intentional or not, this is effectively a study of how much MK-7 you need to preserve the carboxylation status of your osteocalcin when you stop eating natto. Indeed, the largest effect across all groups was for carboxylation status to significantly worsen in the 0 μg/d group. Carboxylation status was significantly different from that group in the 100 and 200 μg/d groups, but not in the 50 μg/d group. The authors did not report a statistical analysis for the difference between 100 and 200 μgd, but 200 μg/d was the only group in which carboxylation status actually improved over the course of the study. I therefore consider this study to offer limited support to 200 μg/d as the optimum dose for improving vitamin K status at bone. In further support of this conclusion, Ikeda (2006) found that postmenopasual women who reported consuming enough natto to provide 200 μg/d K2 or more (mostly as mostly MK-7) suffered less bone loss over the course of three years than women who consumed less. Since all lower intakes of natto were grouped together for the statistical analysis, it is not clear exactly where the line of maximal benefit lies, and it may be less than 200 μg/d. As an observational study, we should also be more cautious about inferring cause and effect. Nevertheless, the fact that it measured an actual health endpoint (bone loss) instead of just a surrogate marker (osteocalcin carboxylation), and the fact that it was three years long instead of four to twelve weeks, makes it very worthy of consideration. Westenfeld (2012) and Caluwé (2014) both conducted dose-finding studies in hemodialysis patients. Patients with kidney disease have high levels of vascular calcification, which is a major contributor to mortality in this population. Since MGP protects blood vessels from calcification, dp-ucMGP was the major endpoint in both studies. Lower dp-ucMGP suggests better vitamin K status in blood vessels and a better defense against pathological calcification. Westenfeld compared 45, 135, and 360 μg/d MK-7 over six weeks. MK-7 dose-dependently decreased dc-ucMGP, with the effect almost doubling in size for each increase in the dose from 18% to 37% to 61%. However, change from baseline analysis is vulnerable to regression to the mean and it is more rigorous to compare the absolute levels of dc-ucMGP after treatment. When looked at this way, 135 and 360 μg/d had equal benefit over 45 μg/d. Nevertheless, Caluwé later tested even higher doses and provided evidence of benefit for more than 300 μg/d. They fed the patients 360, 720, or 1080 μg MK-7 three times per week for eight weeks, which equates to average daily doses of 154, 309, and 463 μg. MK-7 dose-dependently decreased dp-ucMGP by 17%, 33%, and 46%. The ending dp-ucMGP values were lower in the 463 μg/d group than in the 309 μg/d group and were lower than Westenfeld found after feeding 360 μg/d, but they were still about four times higher than that found in healthy controls. The average K2 intakes in the Caluwé paper were 16 μg/d, making the doses compared effectively 325 and and 479 μg/d. Future studies may clarify whether even higher doses can bring dp-ucMGP levels even closer to those found in healthy controls. Thus, there is strong evidence that the K2 requirement for kidney patients is higher than 325 μg, possibly as high as 480 μg, and may well be much higher than that. For healthy populations, there is no smoking gun, but several studies converge towards the conclusion that 200 μg/d is the optimal dose. Most of the benefit probably comes from the first 100 μg, and the evidence for the superiority of 200 μg is limited. There may be benefits to higher doses, but there is no convincing evidence of that at this time. Thus, there is a high likelihood that I will revise my recommendation as new data comes in, but I currently recommend at least 100 μg/d and preferably 200 μg/d. For kidney disease patients, there is good reason to see 480 μg/d as better than lower doses. Since 480 μg/d almost slashes dp-ucMGP in half yet leaves it four times higher than in healthy controls, the optimal dose may well be much higher than this. I suspect it is at least 1 mg/d. Nevertheless, K2 should only be used to augment treatment for kidney disease under medical supervision. Click here to close the detailed explanation. You can use the searchable database we created to determine how much vitamin K2 is in your diet. In this section, I describe a few of the simplest ways to get 200 μg per day of K2 from foods. As noted above, most of the benefit comes from the first 100 μg, so any of the values below can be cut in half to obtain that amount. The foods that are richest in K2 are natto and goose liver, both of which may be difficult-to-acquire tastes. Natto is a fermented soy food popular in eastern Japan. The source of K2 is the bacteria used in the fermentation, not the soy beans. As a result, any vegetable fermented with natto bacteria should be rich in K2. For example, 100 grams of traditional natto contains just under 950 μg, while 100 grams of natto made from black beans contains almost 800 μg. The value for black bean natto is a little lower than that for traditional natto, but both values are phenomenally high. Simply adding 18 grams of natto (about two-thirds of an ounce) to your diet each day would give you 200 μg, and just two ounces of goose liver would provide the same benefit. Another excellent source of vitamin K2 is cheese. The K2 content of cheese varies widely according to the type of bacteria used to make it. To browse a full list of cheeses, search “cheese” in our database or leave the search box blank and select the category “Dairy Foods and Eggs.” Jarlsberg cheese, which originates from Norway, is richest in K2. According to the value listed in our database, it would take nine ounces of Jarlsberg to provide 200 μg. Its true content of K2 has likely been underestimated, however, and it may actually take as little as 4.5 ounces. Egg yolks and the dark meat (legs and thighs) of chicken are also good sources. For example, four whole eggs provides over 20 μg and 100 grams of dark chicken meat provides 60 μg. Ultimately, it is the way these foods are combined in your diet that determines how much K2 you get. The first infographic provides some ideas of how to work these different foods into a meal to make a meaningful contribution to your daily K2 intake. You can figure out how much K2 other meals would provide by using our database. Surprisingly, we recently learned that pork products are very high in MK-10 and MK-11. This is a newly discovered exception to the rule that fresh animal products mostly contain MK-4. Unfortunately, little is known about the bioavailability of these forms and there are some indications that we as humans largely store them in our livers rather than distributing them throughout our bodies like other forms of K2. However, if future research were to show that MK-10 and MK-11 have similar benefits as the other forms, that would mean most pork products are competitive sources. For example, only 4.5 ounces of baby back pork ribs would be needed to provide 200 μg, and just two ounces of pork sausage would provide the same amount. Food quality is important. Egg yolk from The Netherlands is reported to have twice as much K2 as egg yolk from the United States. The reasons for this are unclear, but it may relate to the ways the chickens were raised. Wherever possible, I recommend using meat, eggs, and dairy from animals raised on pasture. For egg yolks, look for the most deeply colored yolks you can find. Vitamin K2 in foods comes either from the conversion of other K vitamins to MK-4 in animals or from bacterial production of various MKs. A good example that ties these concepts together is cheese. A cow eats grass that contains K1. The cow converts a portion of that K1 to MK-4. Both K1 and MK-4 are found in the milk. Humans take the milk and ferment it into cheese. During the fermentation process, bacteria proliferate that synthesize a variety of MKs, mainly MK-7 through MK-10, and especially MK-8 and MK-9. A comparison of different cheeses illustrates the importance of the specific type of bacteria used in the fermentation. For example, in each 100 gram serving, Jarlsberg contains 74 μg while blue cheese contains 36, cheddar contains 21, Swiss contains 8, and mozzarella only contains 4. This variation can also be seen among fermented plant foods. For example, sauerkraut has only 5 μg, compared to nearly 1000 for natto. Within a particular type of cheese, ripening has little effect. For example, gamalost increases from 38 to 51 in the first ten days of ripening, but this level remains mostly stable over the course of 20, 30, and 60 days. This is probably because the bacteria that produced the K2 during the initial stage of fermentation die off during the ripening (Hojo, 2007). The data for cheese also provide a window into the possibility that some of our current food data are gross underestimates. For example, most cheeses are made with lactic acid bacteria that produce mostly MK-8 and MK-9, but some cheeses are made with proprionibacteria that also produce tetrahydro-MK-9 (Hojo, 2007), which has a structure that is the same as MK-9 except it lacks some double bonds in its side chain. These include the Swiss cheeses Emmental and Gruyère, the French cheese Comté, and the Norwegian cheese Jarlsberg. Whether tetrahydro-MKs might be present in other foods is somewhat unclear because virtually all analyses of vitamin K in foods have ignored them. No analysis has yet evaluated both tetrahydro-MKs and all the regular MKs in any food at the same time, strongly suggesting that the total K2 in foods that contain tetrahydro-MKs is grossly underestimated. To take Jarlsberg as an example, Hojo (2007) showed that, per 100 grams, it contains 8 μg MK-4 and 65 μg tetrahydro-MK-9, and cited evidence that it also contains another ~50 μg of MK-8 and MK-9. In our database, we only report values that were measured in a single scientific paper for any given sample, so our data for Jarlsberg reflects what was actually measured in the Hojo paper, 74 μg, but the true value may be over 130 μg. Our own gut microbiota also synthesize K2: Bacterioides synthesize MK-10 and MK-11, Enterobacteria synthesize MK-8, Veillonella synthesize MK-7, and Eubacterium lentum synthesizes MK-6 (Shearer, 2014). However, this probably makes little if any contribution to our own vitamin K status for two reasons: first, most of this occurs in the large intestine, which is well past the sites of vitamin K absorption in the small intestine, and all the K2 is stuck in bacterial membranes that would have to be digested to release it. MKs produced during the fermentation of foods such as cheese or natto are also bound in bacterial membranes, but when we eat them we digest those membranes to release the K2 in the small intestine where it can be absorbed. Some animals eat their own feces, a practice known as coprophagia, and this allows the the microbiota-derived K2 to be released and absorbed in the same way as when we eat cheese or natto. This may explain the recent finding that pork products are extremely rich in MK-10 and MK-11 (Fu, 2016). The meat was obtained from supermarkets in Eastern Massachusetts, so it presumably came from commercial farms. Perhaps pigs on those farms whether by instinct, necessity, or accident, consume feces.The only other possibility would seem to be that the pigs are fed rotten or fermented food. The question arises whether MK-10 and MK-11 provide similar bioavailability to the MKs in other foods, which are generally much richer in MK-4 (animal foods), MK-7 (natto) or MK-8 and MK-9 (cheese) than in MK-10 or MK-11. In humans, MK-10 and MK-11 tend to predominate in the liver rather than in other tissues, and in the mitochondria rather than in the endoplasmic reticulum where vitamin K-dependent carboxylation takes place (Thijssen, 1996). Thus, we should be cautious before making a conclusion about how interchangeable the MKs in pork products are with the MKs in most other foods. Ultimately this can be resolved with studies comparing the abilities of the different MKs to support different biological functions of vitamin K. Click here to close the detailed explanation. Supplements should never be used to replace a good diet. A well-rounded nutrient-dense diet not only provides vitamin K itself in a greater diversity of forms than can be found in any supplement, but it also provides a full spectrum of other nutrients that work together with vitamin K to produce good health. As such, a good diet provides the context needed for a supplement to be both safe and effective. When evaluating K2 supplements, I look for the following things: Here are my top three recommendations: An interesting runner-up is Nature’s Plus, which is an affordable MK-7 supplement that is interesting mostly for its long list of features, like its background blend of plant, mushroom, and algae extracts, and its substantial list of third party certifications. It is described in more detail in the comprehensive review below. If you have the time for home fermentation, Dr. Mercola created a starter culture that is designed to generate K2 during the fermentation of vegetables. While I do not believe this will provide a standardized amount of K2 like a commercial supplement will, I would expect it to substantially augment the K2 content of your diet. These are my top recommendations from a much more extensive review of over twenty supplements. If you want more details, click below for the comprehensive review. Here is my comprehensive review of vitamin K2 supplements. It doesn’t cover every single supplement on the market, but it covers the supplements that provide singular doses of about one milligram or less and are easily accessible through the major online retailers Amazon and iHerb. If you would like me to review a supplement that didn’t make the list, please let me know in the comments. I have broken the list into five categories according to whether they provide a combination of MK-4 and MK-7, only MK-4, only synthetic MK-7, only natural MK-7 from chickpeas, or only natural MK-7 from natto. Within each category, I have listed them from least expensive to most expensive. One concern for synthetic MK-7 supplements is whether they are bioidentical. Natural MK-7 is all-trans (Bentley, 1982). If synthetic MK-7 is not guaranteed to be bioidentical, it may contain cis forms. While it is difficult to find reliable information on the biological activity of cis MK-7, cis phylloquinone fails to support vitamin K-dependent carboxylation in the rat (Knauer, 1975). Therefore, I recommend avoiding synthetic MK-7 supplements that do not guarantee the all-trans configuration. Notably, many of the MK-7 supplements use one of two products made by MenaQ7, either synthetic or from fermented chickpeas, both guaranteed to be all-trans. This MK-7 has the advantage of having been used in scientific studies and shown to be effective. The prices listed were retrieved between December 4 and December 7, 2016 and are subject to change. Where I link to more than one way of obtaining a supplement, the cents per capsule and cents per 200 μg calculations are based on the least expensive option. Additions were made to this review on December 29, 2016. They are catalogued here. Life Extension Super K With Advanced K2 Complex — 1 mg K1, 1 mg MK-4, 200 μg mK-7, with an additional 10 mg ascorbic acid from 25 mg ascorbyl palmitate. Sold by iHerb ($22.50) but cheaper at Amazon ($17.93). Eligible for Prime and Amazon Fresh. 20 cents per capsule, 3 cents per day to average 200 μg/d. Beware of the subscription button when buying on Amazon. The vitamins are synthetic. According to Life Extension, the MK-7 is synthesized in China and is bioidentical, but they could not verify for me that it is 100% all-trans, which is the natural form. The reason I do not advocate this supplement is because the high dose of K1 adds little value, and although there is no well characterized risk of high doses, it is possible that multiple milligrams per day of vitamin K (this supplement itself provides 2.2 mg per capsule) may unnecessarily tax the body’s antioxidant system. Maxx Labs Vitamin K2 Complex — 500 μg MK-4, 100 μg MK-7, 100 mg calcium from calcium citrate. 20 cents per capsule, 7 cents per day to average 200 μg/d. $17.98 on Amazon, where it is fulfilled by Amazon and eligible for Prime. Be careful to avoid the subscription setting if you only want to order one bottle. Free of GMOs and allergens. Innovix Full-Spectrum K2 — 500 μg MK-4, 100 μg MK-7. 24 cents per capsule, 8 cents per day to average 200 μg/d. $21.97 on Amazon, fulfilled by Amazon and eligible for Prime. Both forms of K2 in this product appear to be synthetic but bioidentical. It contains caramel coloring derived from non-GMO corn, a potential source of allergens. I consider this the best choice for a mixed MK-4/MK-7 supplement. Country Life Vegan K2 Strawberry Smooth Melt — 500 μg total K2. MK-4 and MK-7 in unidentified proportions. 19 cents per smooth melt, 8 cents per day to average 200 μg/d. Almost identical prices on Amazon ($16.65) and iHerb ($16.67). On Amazon, it is fulfilled by Amazon and eligible for Prime. It is not clear where the vitamins come from or whether the MK-7 is bioidentical. It is free of GMOs, soy, and other common allergens. Pure Encapsulations Synergy K — 1,000 IU Vitamin D3, 1 mg MK-4, 500 μg K1, 45 μg MK-7. 47 cents per capsule, 9 cents per day to average 200 μg/d. $56 on Amazon, where it is fulfilled by Amazon and eligible for Prime. Free of GMOs and allergens. Taken to yield an average close to 200 μg K2, the amounts of vitamin D (200 IU) and MK-7 (9 μg) are rather low compared to the Innovix Full-Spectrum K2 (20 μg MK-7) or the Thorne Research D/K2 (1,000 IU vitamin D), but the unique combination of the three vitamins may be optimal for some people whose nutritional needs fit it just right. Thorne Research Vitamin K2 — 1 mg MK-4. 5 cents per drop, 1 cent per day to average 200 μg/d. Similarly priced at Amazon ($64.62) and iHerb ($64.65), and if ordered on Amazon it is fulfilled by Amazon and eligible for Prime. It is dissolved in a base of nothing but MCT oil and mixed tocopherolsd. This is the least expensive option in the list. Thorne Research D/K2— 1000 IU vitamin D and 200 μg MK-4. 4 cents per day to obtain 200 μg from each two-drop serving. Although available on Amazon from third party shippers at prices ranging from $36-$70, it is not eligible for Prime and it is much less expensive ($23.70) through iHerb. This is a great option for someone who also needs to improve their vitamin D status. When compared to the Thorne Vitamin K2, it has the added benefit that the dose of MK-4 is smaller so it is easier to take a consistent dose of 200 μg every day. However, don’t be fooled by the price difference: the bottle costs less (hardly more than a third the price), but on a per 200 μg basis it is four times as expensive. Superior Source Sublingual MK-4 Tablets — 500 μg MK-4. 29 cents per tablet and 12 cents per day to average 200 μg per day. Similar price from Amazon ($17.59), where it is shipped and sold by Amazon as well as eligible for Prime, and iHerb ($17.79). The company claims that the sublingual formulation offers superior absorption but I’m not aware of any specific evidence of this. It contains lactose, so should be avoided by people with lactose intolerance. Amazing Nutrition MenaQ7 — 100 μg MK-7. 12 cents per capsule, 25 cents per day for 200 μg . $14.99 on Amazon where it is fulfilled by Amazon and eligible for Prime free one-day shipping. Free of common allergens and bioidentical. Young Life Research MenaQ7 and Organic Coconut Oil — 100 μg MK-7. 16 cents per capsule, 32 cents per day for 200 μg . $19.47 from Amazon, fulfilled by Amazon and eligible for Prime. Free of common allergens and bioidentical. Non-GMO. I consider this the best balance of quality and price from among the synthetic MK-7 supplements. Superior Source Sublingual Vitamin K2-MK7 — 100 μg MK-7. 25 cents per tablet, 50 cents per day for 200 μg . Less expensive from Amazon ($14.99) than from iHerb ($16.06). On Amazon, it is sold by Amazon and eligible for Prime,. The company claims that the sublingual formulation offers superior absorption but I’m not aware of any specific evidence of this. It contains lactose, so should be avoided by people with lactose intolerance. The company does not claim this is bioidentical. Life Extension Low-Dose Vitamin K2 (MK-7) — 45 μg MK-7. 14 cents per capsule, 56 cents per day for 180 μg and 69 cents per day for 225 μg . Less expensive from Amazon ($12.49) than from iHerb ($13.50). On Amazon, it is eligible for Prime free one-day shipping and Amazon Fresh. According to Life Extension, the MK-7 is manufactured in Poland, but any further information is proprietary. Presumably it is synthetic and not bioidentical. K-Force — 5,000 IU vitamin D3, 180 μg MK-7. $1.13 per capsule, and $1.13 per day to yield 180 μg or $1.20 per day to yield an average of 200 μg/d. $67.95 on Amazon, where it can be obtained with free shipping but is not fulfilled by Amazon or eligible for Prime. The company lists the MK-7 as soy-free but does not clarify its origin. Presumably it is synthetic, but it may be derived from fermented chickpeas. This supplement is useful specifically to people who need to take 5,000 IU of vitamin D per day. These all derive their MK-7 from MenaQ7. Everything in this section is the fermented chickpea product. Nested Naturals K2 — 100 μg MK-7. 12 cents per capsule, 24 cents per day to take 200 μg. $21.95 on Amazon, where it is fulfilled by Amazon and eligible for free one-day shipping, but beware of the subscription button. Free of GMOs, soy, and other common allergens. This is the least expensive of the products derived from fermented chickpeas and remains the least expensive even when including those derived from natto. Doctor’s Best Natural Vitamin K2 — 100 μg MK-7. 18 cents per capsule, 37 cents per day to take 200 μg . Almost identical prices on Amazon ($11.06) and iHerb ($11.25). On Amazon, it is sold by Amazon and eligible for Prime free one-day shipping and Amazon Fresh delivery, but beware of the subscription button. Free of GMOs, soy, and other common allergens. They also sell a 45 μg dose, but it is much more expensive if trying to achieve 200 μg per day. Sports Research Vitamin K2 — 100 μg MK-7. 25 cents per capsule, 50 cents per day to take 200 μg . $14.95 on Amazon, where it is fulfilled by Amazon and eligible for free one-day shipping. The fermented chickpea product comes from MenaQ7, which distributes their MK-7 products under many names. Free of GMOs, soy, and other common allergens. It’s main special feature out of the fermented chickpea products is the snap-top that the company says maintains better freshness. Dr. Mercola Vitamin K2 — 150 μg MK-7. 79 cents per capsule: 79 cents per day to take 150 μg , $1.58 per day to take 300 μg , or $1.05 per day to take an average of 200μg per day. The cost is nearly identical between iHerb ($71.37) and Amazon ($71.97) but slightly less expensive on iHerb. On Amazon, it ships from a third party and is not eligible for Prime. Free of GMOs, soy, and other common allergens. Healthy Origins Vitamin K2 as MK-7 — 100 μg MK-7. 14 cents per softgel, 28 cents per day to get 200 μg . Less expensive at iHerb ($24.99) than at Amazon ($29.50). On Amazon, it is sold by Amazon and eligible for Prime. Beware of the subscription button, and beware of the bottle containing 60 softgels rather than 180, which is much more expensive per softgel. The company says this product comes from natto but is free of soy. It contains non-GMO corn starch, a potential source of allergens. This is the least expensive option from among the natto-derived supplements. Sonora Nutrition Vitamin K2 Natural MK-7 — 100 μg MK-7. 18 cents per capsule, 36 cents per day to get 200 μg. Available on Amazon, where it is fulfilled by Amazon and eligible for Prime free one-day shipping. Presumably made from soy. Natural Factors K2 — 100 μg MK-7. 21 cents per capsule, 42 cents per day to achieve 200 μg. $12.57 from Amazon. Derived from non-GMO natto. The company has a unique farm-to-capsule model where it controls everything that goes into its supplements from the soil to the encapsulation. Nature’s Plus Source of Life Garden Vitamin K2 — 120 μg MK-7. 22 cents per capsule. 43 cents per day to obtain 240 μg , 37 cents per day to take an average of 200 μg . Less expensive on Amazon ($12.95) than iHerb ($15.13). On Amazon, fulfilled by Amazon and eligible for Prime. Contains a blend of plant, mushroom, and algae extracts. Certified organic, certified non-GMO, certified allergen-free. Now Foods MK-7 Vitamin K2 — 100 μg MK-7. 21 cents per capsule, 42 cents per day to get 200 μg . 19 cents per capsule, 38 cents per day to get 200 μg. Less expensive at Amazon ($11.46) than at iHerb ($12.73). On Amazon, it is sold by Amazon and eligible for Prime free one-day shipping and Amazon Fresh, but beware of the subscription button. From non-GMO natto. Contains soy. Does not contain other common allergens but processed in a facility where other allergens may be present. Nutrigold Vitamin K2 MK-7 Gold — 100 μg MK-7. 23 cents per capsule, 45 cents per day to get 200 μg. $27.99 from Amazon. Sold by Amazon and eligible for Prime, but beware of the subscription button. Non-GMO. Made from soybeans, but free of allergenic soy protein. Free of other common allergens as well, verified by third party testing. Natural Factors D3 & K2 — 1000 IU vitamin D, 120 μg MK-7. 35 cents per softgel, 58 cents per day taken to average 200 μg/d, or 70 cents per day to yield 240 μg. Identical in price ($20.97) between Amazon and iHerb. MK-7 is derived from non-GMO natto. The company has an unusual farm-to-capsule model where it controls everything that goes into its supplements from the soil to the encapsulation. Taken to yield an average daily dose of 200 μg K2/d, it yields 1,667 IU vitamin D; taken twice a day to yield 240 μg K2, it yields 2000 IU of vitamin D, both of which are more than the 1,000 IU of vitamin D in Thorne Research D/K2. However, the Thorne product contains MK-4 and this product contains MK-7. This is the only product that combines relatively high doses of vitamin D and MK-7. Jarrow Formulas MK-7 Vitamin K2 — 90 μg MK-7. 20 cents per softgel. 42 cents per day to get 180 μg, 47 cents per day to average 200 μg. Less expensive at iHerb ($12.48) than at Amazon ($13.55). On Amazon, it is sold by Amazon and eligible for Prime free one-day shipping and Amazon Fresh, but beware of the subscription button. From non-GMO natto. Contains soy but free of most other common allergens. Carlson Labs Vitamin K2 MK-7 — 45 μg. 13 cents per capsule, 53 cents per day to get 180 μg, 67 cents per day to get 225 μg. Less expensive buying a 180-capsule bottle from iHerb ($24) than the 90-capsule bottle sold on Amazon ($15.23). On Amazon, sold by Amazon and eligible for Prime free one-day shipping and Amazon Fresh, but beware of the subscription button. Made from natto and contains soy, though their own web site suggests they may have switched to chickpea. Bluebonnet Nutrition Vitamin K2 — 100 μg. 32 cents per capsule, 64 cents per day to get 200 μg. Almost identical in price between Amazon ($32.39) and iHerb ($32.40). On Amazon, fulfilled by Amazon and eligible for Prime, but beware of the 2-bottle package that is more expensive and not eligible for Prime. Made from natto. Non-GMO, Kosher, contains soy but free of other common allergens. Nature Made Vitamin K2 Softgel — 100 μg. 52 cents per softgel, $1.03 per day to get 200 μg. $15.45 on Amazon, where it is sold by Amazon and eligible for Prime. Made from “natto organism,” and contains soy. Supplements where the lowest dose contains 5 mg or more of MK-4 are included in this section. It is impractical to use these supplements to reach an average dose of 200 μg/d. They are primarily useful as a means of reaching the pharmacological dose of 45 mg/d that has been used to treat osteoporosis, to prevent the occurrence of hepatocellular carcinoma in women with viral cirrhosis, and to prevent the recurrence of the same disease in people who have already been treated for it. Although high-dose MK-4 supplements are available over-the-counter and have a low risk of side effects, these treatments are pharmacological rather than nutritional in nature. Therefore, I recommend using them under the supervision of the physician who is overseeing treatment for one of these conditions. Advanced Orthomolecular Research Peak K2 — 15 mg MK-4. 35 cents per capsule and $1.04 per day to reach 45 mg. Less expensive on Amazon ($31.30) than iHerb ($34.56). On Amazon, fulfilled by Amazon and eligible for Prime. Free of common allergens. Note: This company also makes a low-dose supplement, but it can't be ordered online and the company is not transparent about its price, so I am not including it in this review. Relentless Improvement Vitamin K2 — 15 mg MK-4, 60 μg MK-7. 39 cents per capsule and $1.17 per day to reach 45 mg. $34.95 per bottle on Amazon, where it is fulfilled by Amazon and eligible for Prime free one-day shipping. Taken to provide 45 mg/d MK-4, it also provides 180 μg/d MK-7. While research suggests that MK-4 and MK-7 have different tissue distributions at low doses, it is unclear whether there is any benefit to adding a low dose of MK-7 to a far higher dose of MK-4. The vitamins are synthetic and the company guarantees a low percentage of inactive cis isomers. Carlson Labs Vitamin K2 — 5 mg MK-4. 18 cents per capsule and $1.66 per day to reach 45 mg. Less expensive on Amazon than on iHerb. On Amazon, the 60-capsule bottle ($10.99) and 180-capsule bottle ($33.26) are both equivalent in price per capsule. Both are fulfilled by Amazon and eligible for Prime, and the larger one is eligible for Prime free one-day shipping. Be careful of the subscribe and save button on the smaller bottle. iHerb only sells the 60-capsule bottle ($14.94). Supplements included in this section are those that isolate a food oil itself or a major fraction thereof rather than specifically isolating one or more forms of vitamin K2. The nutrients in these supplements are less concentrated, but they are present in a broader network of synergists. While vitamin K2 supplements are a great way to optimize vitamin K status in someone whose diet is otherwise good, food-based supplements are likely to be better ways of compensating for an otherwise suboptimal diet. Walkabout Australian Emu Oil — 40 cents per gram as a liquid oil, 52 cents per gram as capsules. Each capsule contains one gram of total oil and 4 μg MK-4. This product is not available on Amazon or iHerb. Its price is identical between Radiant Life, where the liquid oil ($45) and capsules ($52) can be ordered on the same page, and Corganic, where the oil and capsules are available on separate pages. Additional shipping charges apply to both sellers. Shipping charges for RadiantLife would be $7.95 for the liquid oil, $9.95 for the capsules, and free for a total order over $125. Corganic shipping charges depend on your address. Reaching 200 μg K2/d with this product would require 48 capsules or 3.5 tablespoons per day of the liquid oil and is obviously impractical. However, five capsules per day would yield 20 μg/d; added to a nutrient-poor diet containing only 15-20 μg/d on its own, this would double a person's K2 intake. The oil also naturally contains a blend of essential fatty acids and other fat-soluble vitamins. Green Pastures X-Factor Butter Oil — 43 cents per capsule, with each capsule containing 0.5 grams of oil. Less expensive on Amazon ($43.20) than on the Green Pastures web site ($60). On Amazon, fulfilled by Amazon and eligible for Prime free one-day shipping. However, the Green Pastures web site offers liquid oils as well as capsules and offers a greater diversity of flavors than available on Amazon. Each capsule contains 0.4 μg of K2, mostly as MK-4. Reaching 200 μg/d would require 500 capsules per day and is obviously impractical. However, Green Pastures has in the past reported an unidentified set of quinones in the oil, which could upon further testing be shown to have additional vitamin K activity. For example, the fermentation of the oil could produce tetrahydromenaquinones, which are found in high concentrations in certain cheeses but have not been measured in the butter oil. The oil also naturally contains a blend of essential fatty acids and other fat-soluble vitamins. Click here to close the comprehensive review. Vitamin K is only slightly sensitive to heat, but is extremely sensitive to light. So much so that when we measure vitamin K in a laboratory we work under yellow lamps. In food oils exposed to daylight, 80 percent of the vitamin K disappears within two days. To make sure that your food and supplements retain their vitamin K content over time, keep them in the refrigerator, behind cabinets, or otherwise out of the light when not in use. If you keep them in plain daylight, they should be in amber glass or in opaque containers such as the white plastic used for most supplements. Vitamin K is fat-soluble so fat helps us absorb it from foods and supplements. If your fat intake varies from meal to meal, it makes sense to eat your K2-rich foods or take your K2 supplements with the meal that contains the most fat. The optimal amount of fat to maximize absorption of K2 from a single meal is probably about 35 grams. The true optimal amount of fat has not been precisely determined and may be higher than this, but I consider it adequate. For the best effect, the fat should be low in polyunsaturated fatty acids, which means that butter and other animal fats, tropical oils, olive oil, avocado oil, macadamia nut oil, and the high-oleic varieties of sunflower and safflower oil would help the most. By contrast, soybean oil, canola oil, the regular varieties of sunflower and safflower oil, grape seed oil, and most other oils derived from nuts and seeds would help the least. Notably, many of the foods richest in K2 like cheese, meat, and egg yolks are themselves rich in fat. The total fat content of the meal is what is important, so the more natural fats within the foods, the less you have to add. Dietary fat is important for the absorption of all fat-soluble vitamins partly because it helps dissolve the vitamins and partly because it helps stimulate the machinery involved in fat digestion, such as bile acids and lipases. Studies have generally suggested the following rule: the more fat you eat, the more fat-soluble vitamins you absorb. For example, 28 grams of fat allows better absorption of carotenoids from a salad than 6 grams of fat (Brown, 2004), and 30 grams of fat allows better absorption of vitamin E from a supplement than 11 grams of fat (Bruno, 2006). Studies have also shown that oils lower in polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFAs) promote better absorption of fat-soluble vitamins than high-PUFA oils. For example, beef tallow allows better absorption of beta-carotene from a standardized test meal than safflower oil (Hu, 2000). These rules appear to apply to vitamin K just the same. For example, 35 grams of fat allows better absorption of MK-4 than 20 grams of fat (Uematsu, 1996), and more K1 is absorbed from spinach with 25 grams of butter than without butter (Gijsbers, 1996). More K1 was absorbed from a “cosmopolitan” meal or an “animal-oriented” meal than from a “convenience meal,” with one possible explanation being the two-fold greater PUFA content of the convenience meal (Jones, 2009). None of these studies showed a ceiling to the fat effect, and none of them tested more than 35 grams of fat. So, there may not be any ceiling to the effect. What we can say with confidence is that 30-35 grams of fat will provide for better absorption than lower amounts. Even still, absorption will probably never reach 0% or 100%, and for any given percent absorption one can always absorb a greater total amount of a vitamin by consuming more of it. Therefore, there is no sense in chasing after complete absorption and there is no intrinsic danger of a low-fat diet. If you have a good reason to eat less than 35 grams of fat per meal, it just becomes more important to spend the fat you do eat wisely by allocating it to K2-rich foods. It is fine to be flexible about fat intake, but it is important to be aware that any given amount of K2 in the diet will provide more nutrition to our bodies if consumed with a good dose of healthy fat. Click here to close the detailed explanation. Unfortunately, there are no useful tests for measuring vitamin K status that are available to the general public at this time. However, good tests are on the horizon. VitaK will be releasing innovative medical devices to allow health care practitioners to monitor vitamin K status in patients, and ImmunoDiagnostic Systems will be releasing a blood test for dp-ucMGP, a protein that circulates in the blood when blood vessels become deficient in vitamin K. If you would like me to notify you when these tests become available in the United States, please join my newsletter. Vitamin K travels through the blood almost entirely as a means of being delivered to our other tissues, so blood levels of vitamin K only reflect recent intake rather than long-term nutritional status. Red blood cells lack the organelles in which vitamin K function is important (the endoplasmic reticulum, mitochondria, and nucleus). Lymphocyte vitamin K concentrations could, perhaps, reflect long-term vitamin K status, but practically nothing is known about what vitamin K does in lymphocytes in the context of human nutrition, and such tests have never been validated to show anything important. The appropriate way to test vitamin K status is to look at the carboxylation status of vitamin K-dependent proteins. These tests can be validated by showing that they respond to vitamin K depletion or supplementation and that they correlate with known health outcomes that respond in the same way. For example, the ability of the blood to clot reflects vitamin K status in the liver, where clotting factors are made; the carboxylation status of osteocalcin reflects vitamin K status in bone, where osteocalcin is made; and the carboxylation status of matrix Gla protein (MGP) reflects vitamin K status in blood vessels, where MGP is made. Clotting disorders are life threatening and we have known about the role of vitamin K in this process for almost a century. As a result, a whole battery of tests for the different vitamin K-dependent clotting factors are readily available (for example, Ohishi, 2014). Vitamin K1 is perfectly good at supporting the production of clotting factors, and since hemorrhage can be life-threatening, clotting factors will always get priority over a limited pool of vitamin K. Thus, most people consume enough vitamin K for their clotting factors to be fully carboxylated and these tests are not useful measures of whether vitamin K status is adequate to support its other functions in other tissues. The most common marker of vitamin K status in research studies is the carboxylation status of osteocalcin, which reflects vitamin K status in bone. This test is only useful if the proportion of osteocalcin in the carboxylated and undercarboxylated forms can be measured. Unfortunately, this is not available outside of research studies. Quest offers total osteocalcin, but doesn’t measure its carboxylation status; Genova offers undercarboxylated osteocalcin, but doesn’t measure the total. One could “hack” its carboxylation status by getting both, but this would require each “half” of the correct marker to be measured from separate blood samples analyzed by separate laboratories, making the interpretation highly questionable. Were it available, we would still have to interpret it with caution, because, independent of vitamin K status, bone resorption decarboxylates osteocalcin and releases the undercarboxylated form into the bloodstream where it has beneficial hormonal roles, so it isn’t a black-and-white marker of vitamin K status. The most promising marker of vitamin K status on the horizon is desphospho-uncarboxylated matrix Gla protein (dc-ucMGP), which reflects vitamin K status in blood vessels and the risk of soft tissue calcification. It’s just a matter of time before it becomes available. Click here to close the detailed explanation. Very high doses of vitamin K2 have proved remarkably safe in large clinical trials, but there are safety concerns for people taking prescription anticoagulants, and there are reasons to be cautious about high doses even for healthy people. The most common anticoagulants used in medicine are warfarin and its relatives. As a class, they are known as 4-hydroxycoumarins. These go by a number of brand names, the most common of which is Coumadin. As a class, these drugs act as vitamin K antagonists, and it is absolutely critical that anyone taking them avoid making any changes to their diet or supplements that would be expected to change their vitamin K intake except under the strict supervision of the physician who prescribed the medication. Long-term use of 45 mg per day of MK-4 has not revealed any established toxicity syndrome or risk of serious side effects. This is 225 times the dose I recommend. Nevertheless, the biochemistry of vitamin K suggests that unnecessarily high doses could rob the body of antioxidants or interfere with blood sugar regulation, insulin sensitivity, and hormonal health. The real question, though, is at what dose these potential side effects kick in. Since 45 mg per day has not shown any clear syndrome of toxicity and the dose I recommend is more than 200 times lower than this, I think we have a very large window of safety to work within. The potential for hypothetical side effects, however, should lead us to avoid supplementing with doses that are much larger than those that provide clear benefits. There are several aspects of vitamin K’s biochemistry that suggest high doses could have adverse effects on our health: Japanese trials using 45 mg/day MK-4 to treat osteoporosis have not established any risk of severe side effects (Iwamoto, 2013). Most of them, however, had between 20 and 120 subjects per group. One very large two-year trial with over 2,000 subjects per group (Inoue, 2009) reported 23 percent more adverse drug reactions in the MK-4 group than in the control group. The report did not include any description of what those side effects were, but confirmed that there was no difference in “serious” adverse effects or deaths. Such high doses are pharmacological in nature and not nutritional. We should look at their costs and benefits in the same way we look at other pharmaceutical drugs. In this light, high-dose MK-4 is remarkably safe and effective. We nevertheless have hints that negative side effects of some sort occur when using extended pharmacological doses and we have several biochemical rationales for why high doses would cause harm. This provides a basis for caution in using doses outside of the nutritional range. Click here to close the detailed explanation. Vitamin K2 is something most of us could use a lot more of. The best way to obtain it is to consume K2-rich foods in the context of a well rounded, nutrient-dense diet. The many other nutrients contained in a good diet provide the context that makes vitamin K2 safe and effective. Supplements can be very helpful, as long as they are used as adjuncts to support a good diet rather than as replacements for a good diet. From here, you can leave a comment, scroll on for my suggestions for further reading, or search for some K2 rich foods in our database to plan out your next K2-rich meal. In spring of 2007, I wrote “On the Trail of the Elusive X Factor: Vitamin K2 Revealed.” This is an extensive article arguing that vitamin K2 was the “activator X” that Weston Price claimed to have discovered in 1945. Weston Price was one of the pioneers of nutritional anthropology, and many people had speculated about the identity of his “activator X” for decades. The article tells the history of that mystery and in the process extensively reviews the many roles of vitamin K and its interactions with other important nutrients like vitamins A and D. For more about how vitamin K interacts with other nutrients in the diet, see my 2013 article, “Nutritional Adjuncts to the Fat-Soluble Vitamins.” For my other writings on vitamin K2, see Start Here for Vitamin K2. Some other sources that I recommend include Chris Kresser’s Vitamin K2: The Missing Nutrient, and Stephan Guyenet’s writings on the topic. Kate Rheaume-Bleue wrote a great book, Vitamin K2 and the Calcium Paradox: How a Little-Known Vitamin Could Save Your Life. For a more advanced understanding of vitamin K, I would start with the vitamin K chapter by John Suttie in Modern Nutrition in Health and Disease. I consider this textbook so valuable as a general scientific reference that I buy it again every time there is a new edition. Reviews by important figures in the field such as Martin Shearer, John Suttie, Sarah Booth, Cees Vermeer, and Leon Schurgers are also highly valuable and can be found on pubmed. On the specific topic of the hormonal functions of osteocalcin, I recommend reviews by Gerard Karsenty, also found on pubmed. Finally, the expandable “detailed explanation” sections within this resource are rich in scientific references that provide additional opportunities for advanced learning. I would like to make this a multi-purpose resource for all things related to vitamin K2 that can be constantly improved over time. Therefore, I’d like to hear from you: what is most useful? What can be improved? What topics would you like to see included in the future? What features would you like to see added to the searchable database? Please let me know in the comments. Here’s the icing on the cake. We scoured the literature for data on the K2 contents of foods and found many publications that haven’t been included in databases elsewhere. There are almost 200 foods included. You can search by keyword, or you can submit a blank search to browse through everything. You can pick a food category and search it by keyword or submit a blank search to browse through just the foods in that category. Every food entry gives you the opportunity to click for more details, including a breakdown of its different vitamin K forms and the reference from which the data comes. Have fun searching! This resource is continually updated so that it will remain the most useful resource on vitamin K2 over time. Click below for a list of updates. Several people found the third row of the second infographic, “Why It Matters What Type of Vitamin K We Eat,” difficult to read. We changed the font from all-caps to regular capitalization and made the background darker, and it is now much easier to read. My site has, since it started, loaded rather slowly, and that's because I had a budget of near zero when I started it and got a deal of one year free hosting. Being free, it was nothing to complain about. However, The Ultimate Vitamin K2 Resource has a lot to load and is generating tons more traffic to the site, which means its time for an oil change. I migrated my site to WP Engine, which instantaneously cut the load times on my pages by 65%. WP Engine offers a lot of assistance in further optimizing your site for performance and speed. I have yet to take advantage of any of that, but hope to in January. Nevertheless, simply moving from one server to another has caused everything to operate at three times the speed. My choice to move to WP Engine happened after a failed migration to another company's servers. I'll keep them nameless for the time being, but my own hastiness combined with their inadequate technical assistance and customer service caused my site to temporarily crash worldwide. I apologize to any of you who experienced any frustration as a result of this during the transition. The WPEngine migration was smooth as a baby's bottom for two reasons: first, most of it is automated with a fantastic plugin; second, their customer service is off-the-charts, with unlimited continuous access to both phone and live chat. While the downtime the site experienced is embarrassing to me, I'm incredibly happy with the end result. It's pricey, but I intend this site to be awesome in every way in 2017, and awesome content is only as awesome as the speed and performance of the site that hosts it. Originally, the searchable database opened in the same tab. If you wanted to do more than one search, you had to hit the back button, which brought you all the way to the top of the article. All this was far more terrible than it sounds, because the slow site speed prior to the WPEngine migration was causing each of these events to take 10 seconds! Imagine doing five keyword searches, with each search taking 10 seconds, each time going back to the page taking 10 seconds, and then going back to the database with several more seconds, depending on your scrolling skills. A nightmare. Now, the database opens in a new tab, so you are never more than a tab-switch away from it for a new search. Plus, the site migration has made each keyword search load three times faster. Together, searching the database now offers a much better experience. Many people requested data on Walkabout Australian Emu Oil and Green Pastures Butter Oil. These have now been added to the database. The data for these products comes from a set of foods sent by the Weston A. Price Foundation to VitaK for independent analysis. Since the foundation has made the original lab report publicly available, I was able to add these foods to the database and be confident that I was maintaining the same level of rigor as before. To date, every single entry in the database has the exact source of information available to the user simply by clicking on “view more details” under the specific result, and the sources come either from the peer-reviewed scientific literature or independent analyses documented with original lab reports. Other foods added to the database include oysters, fish roe, shrimp, conventional and pastured chicken liver, cheeses and butters of different varieties with name brands or local farm sources listed, egg yolks, tallow, duck fat, lard, and cod liver oil. If you're salivating already, go on and search your heart out in the database. In response to audience requests, the following supplements have been added to the comprehensive review. I have not changed my top three recommendations in the main text. These include mixed MK-4 and MK-7 supplements, natto-derived MK-7 supplements, and an apparently synthetic MK-7 supplement. Additionally, I created two new categories: High-Dose MK-4, and Food-Based Supplements. Click Here to Close the Update Log.Vitamin K2: What is the Optimal Dose?
Pharmacological Doses of MK-4
Nutritional Doses of MK-4
MK-7 in Healthy Populations
MK-7 in Hemodialysis Patients
Conclusions
How to Get Enough Vitamin K2 From Food
Vitamin K2 in Foods: A Closer Look
The Three Best Vitamin K2 Supplements
Vitamin K2 Supplements: Quality, Convenience, and Price
Mixed MK-4 and MK-7 Supplements
MK-4 Supplements
Synthetic MK-7 Supplements
Natural MK-7 From Chickpeas
Natural MK-7 From Natto
High-Dose MK-4
Food-Based Supplements
Light and Heat Stability, and Proper Storage of Vitamin K2
How Much Fat to Eat With Vitamin K2 and What Kind
Vitamin K Absorption and Fat: A Closer Look
How to Test Your Vitamin K2 Status
Tests for Vitamin K Status: A Closer Look
Is Vitamin K2 Dangerous?
This is Critical If You Are Taking Prescription Anticoagulants
Hypothetical Side Effects of High Doses
Hypothetical Side Effects of High-Dose Vitamin K
Vitamin K2: A Critical Component of a Well Rounded Nutrient-Dense Diet
Suggestions for Further Reading
I’d Like to Hear From You
The Database: Search for the Vitamin K2 Contents of Foods
Improved Clarity to the Second Infographic
The Site Now Loads Three Times Faster
The Vitamin K2 Searchable Food Database Now Opens in a New Tab
Emu Oil, Green Pastures Butter Oil, and Over a Dozen Other Foods Have Been Added to the Database
10 Supplements Have Been Added to the Review
Mixed MK-4 and MK-7 Supplements
Natural MK-7 From Natto
Synthetic MK-7 Supplements
High-Dose MK-4
Food-Based Supplements
Very easy to read, thank you!
I’m very interested in how to ensure I have absorption of k2 after my gallbladder removal.
Hi! I have CAD (plaque in my arteries) and osteoporosis. I think I need K2, MK4 and MK7! I also have one positive and one negative for Factor V Leiden and recently began Eliquis. What kind of doctor would manage my supplementing with Vit k? Is K2 involved with clotting or just or more so K1? I really think K is the answer but need guidance. I would appreciate your advice! Thank you!
El, Please check out v-k2.com. There you will find several video clips that answer all your questions
Thanks so much for this comprehensive article! What are your thoughts on Jarrow’s K-Right supplement?
Comments needed on Koncentrated-K from P. Theut. Is this the best therapeutical dose product going? Any success stories with valve calcification? I have it, ready to give to mom. Please, thank you. Daniel
Usage of Artifical intelligence technology in Agriculture and how to use in futuer in agriculture
and its benefits futuer work and discussion.
Does anyone know about K2 claims of spirulina / chlorella product companies?
For example: https://www.energybits.com/about-algae/nutritional-info.html . I was surprised to hear people from one company choosing K2 as a major selling point, while meanwhile I rarely notice algae emphasized on any K2 educational resource. Also, if from algae, can I assume this would be mostly MK-7?
Please add Greek Yogurt to you data. A common one I use is Fage, whole or 2%. Now I am beginning to see why whole fat is better, I would guess K2 , D3, and A vitamins would be higher.
You say take 30+ grams of fat with K2 MK7 , a tablespoon of oils less than 15 gram. Can you share your thoughts.
Thank you for answering and for the time it took to write this article, and database. I hope you will do more YouTube on K2 and diabetes and cardiovascular health.
James Kantor, Raleigh, North Carolina
Important vitamin k2 source that we should know. This would be a huge help.
I am a vegan with low bone density. I would like to eat Natto (only available near me in the frozen form) . My question: Does freezing reduce the Vitamin K2 content?
I have Natto in powder form, and I am wondering about the K2 in that. Unfortunately the bottle doesn’t say. I bought it from Amazon.
My name is Jeff Mindrup. I am working on a db to track CAC regression strategies and openly publish the data to all who want it.
I am on Twitter as MexicoBluePaleoKetoGuy @jeffmindrup
Today, I found some interesting research that shows bioavailability of MK7 is significantly enhanced by taking MY7 with EVOO (~ 4 tsp or 12.5 grams)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21736837
By doing so, under carboxolation of osteocalcin is decreased and carboxolation increased. By proxy, it is safe to assume the same for matrix GLA protein.
This means the standard regression of ~ 50% per 18 months can be easily sped up and made more affordable.
I highly recommend Saint Patrick’s Kon K, reading Kate’s book and ratios of A and D3 to MK7 and now the addition of EVOO when taking.
I also rec eating frozen chunks of natto daily if you have a high CAC score. It is by far the best source of MKn’s (all of them) as well as fibrin breaking nattokinase. See Malcolm Kendrick’s tree ring explanation with Ivor Cummings.
Hi Jeff, I am trying to understand what you are saying in your post. I truly do not know anything about Carboxolation. I have heard hundreds of seminars about K2, MK 7 & MK4, Vitamin D 3, Vitamin A, but never has this term been used. I know about Fibrin as well; due to my own blood work. What is MY 7? What is EVOO? What are the benefits? Are their any toxins in liquid EVOO? Where is it from (manufactured)? I never heard of a CAC score when doing any of my bloodwork. Thank you for clarifying.
Hi Jan, I can’t answer all of your questions, but CAC is coronary artery calcium score…an indicator of plaque build-up in the arteries for those using K2 for arterial health. EVOO is Extra Virgin Olive Oil…it can actually be a ‘grade’ or designation given to olive oil to indicate the quality of said oil. As I recall, the author of Vitamin K2 and the Calcium Paradox gets into the deffinition and explanation of carboxolation…I don’t recall enough of the details to explain. Lastly, I’m ‘guessing’ that when Jeff said MY-7, it was a typo and he meant MK-7. Hope this helps. I found his comments fascinating and will do more research 🙂
Yes – apologies for any typos. EVOO = olive oil. See study for more info but this is critical because bio-availability and absorption are significantly increased. We also know that not all fats are the same from another study comparing corn oil and EVOO w/sunflower oil. Again the EVOO, despite being a blend was superior for carboxolation.
Jan, I’d really like to speak with you as well as get your help in getting your following to input into the db I am building which will be focused on CAC regression strategies.
The end goal is to freely distribute the best practices for CAC regression and improve upon what appears to be the standard (for APOe3/3s anyway) of about 50% every 18 months.
Kind regards,
Jeff
@jeffmindrup on Twitter
Looks guys. There are some crazy uninformed and un-researched ideas in here and they are confusing the crap out of even me that spent last 6 months studying this subject. Bottom line.
# 1. Get Patricks Kon K – best formula – full stop. Best value, strongest, etc. From looking at the label and using the value tool Carlsons is waste of money once you understand it’s all about the MK7. (Exo Mk4 does not show in serum, MK7 converts to MK4 in vivo) Alternatively/additionally eat natto. I do everyday.
# 2. Read Kate’s book. Just buy it and read it. Don’t be cheap.
# 3. Yes – A, D, and EVOO to get full benefit of K and especially MK7
# 4. Don’t get lost in the weeds – way too many unknowns with K and will be for some time because it’s can’t be patented and there’s little research on it. New study expected any day now. (but not well formed IMHO)
#5. K2 shows zero toxicity in every study ever conducted. Half-life of about 36 hours, peaks at 4-6. If Lance Armstrong has tingling fingers, it’s more than likely from the dozens of other illegal drugs he cheated with. The guy gave himself cancer and is an admitted fraud and liar. Why give a POS any credit? PS his LiveStrong was a grift to benefit him. Not to help others. Corrupt through and through. Do your research.
Responding to Jeff’s points:
#1. Agreed that Patrick Theut’s Koncentrated K is the best value per gm, but I base that on its MK-4 content. I don’t agree “it’s all about the MK-7”. The Rotterdam group maintain that MK-7 is best based on it having a longer persistence in the blood. I’ve never found that argument convincing. If the body prefers MK-7 why does it make MK-4 instead and why is MK-4 found in human breast milk? What does the body do with the MK-4 from your supplement? Chris answers that in the article above – the cells preferentially absorb the MK-4 so that it is rapidly depleted in the blood. That says to me that MK-4 is the optimal form, but I also take 180mcg of MK-7 as insurance.
#2 I can’t find a copy of Kate’s book here in Australia and I would have to order it sight unseen from the US. International postage would more than double the cost. To illustrate, I recently bought an out-of-print book from a US bookseller. That $US30 book cost another $US30 in postage plus 10% import tax and the conversion to Australian dollars makes it $AUS100. That ain’t pocket change.
#3. As Chris outlines here:
https://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/abcs-of-nutrition/nutritional-adjuncts-to-the-fat-soluble-vitamins/
the body also requires magnesium and zinc to manufacture those vitamin- dependent proteins as well as dietary fat to absorb the vitamins in the first place.
#4. Got a reference to that forthcoming study so we can look out for it? Why don’t you regard it as well formed?
#5. Agreed I wouldn’t put much credence in Lance Armstrong. His main nutritional supplement was Vitamin S – S as in steroids.
Curious…. How important do you consider the role of resistance training to up-regulate osteoblastic flux to signal “hey… the bones need more calcium and phosphorus… can anyone spare any?”.
Thank you so much. I will be going for my first Calcium Scan. Trying to keep the heart healthy; I was able to bring down my Fibrinogen due to a vitamin supplement. So I certainly know the benefits of supplementation. I am trying to figure out a good balance when taking 3000 iu of Vit D3, How much K2 & A should I take? Because I don’t take 5000 iu of D3, it is hard to calculate how much of the other vitamins to take when it appears everything is based on 5000 of Vit D3.
Jeff said “its all about MK7” which demonstrates that is clearly in the MK7 camp. I have not seen any studies that confirm MK7 is converted to MK4 in an efficient way. What about for older people? Does the age related conversion inefficiency of K1 to K2 also apply to any MK7-MK4 conversion? I would certainly not be surprised if it did.
Clearly more research needs to be conducted on this important topic before any conclussions can be drawn
My intention is not to bash Jeff or the product he is promoting, Rather I would just suggest that MK4 has many important qualities that distinguish it from MK7 and since there is no harm in taking MK4, so why not take it?
I am not promoting a product. Even the maker sells at a LOSS. It’s about helping people. ZERO AFFILIATION. ZERO GREED.
Even the db I am doing at time and expense is on me.
Read the research.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3502319/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19949269
I’ve used both MK7 and MK4 products, (not concurrently) together with D, and A and EVOO as well as a compliment of other synergistic nutrients/foods. Natto is not on my plate, yet, but that’s primarily as I don’t eat breakfast and that’s how it seems to have been used traditionally, and secondarily because I had cardiac rhythmic irregularities that were simultaneous with MK7 supplementation (about 9 years ago) and that have never reoccurred since ceasing MK7. At 64 yo, I’ve not had a CaC done or any known problems with blood vessels or symptoms suggesting the need for such a scan, although I’ve been tempted to do so just to find out (not a big fan of CAT/CT scans unless warranted) . The rhythmic irregularities also corresponded with unrefined organic Coconut Oil usage so I can’t be definitive as to the actual cause of the symptoms (possibly glycerine related and with low RBC magnesium level possibly related to chronic mercury toxicity possibly made much worse by 40 yo amalgam being removed by a dentist that took no precautions for his patient (and I’ve had 13 others of similar age since removed with the best precautions and thankfully without any problems since)), but in any case, the avoidance of both CO and MK7 eliminated the problem (together with judicious supplementation of Magnesium, Taurine and Arginine.
It’s possible that by my age (or earlier, say early 50’s, when I first experienced problems mentioned above) conversion of the K’s has decreased considerably, both from k1 to k2, and from MK7 to M4. Low serum levels of MK4 after supplementation might be indicative of the nutrient being effectively used (rather than excreted; not sure if ever measured); high levels of MK7 persisting for days in the serum might be indicative of a problem with utilization ( a half-life of 36 hrs!).
Just saying tho: a lot of people have reported problems with taking MK7 besides me. I’ve never had any problems with MK4 and I’ve taken upwards of 15-30 mg daily, although I’ve settled back on about 5 mg daily for a while now.
https://www.k-vitamins.com/
This is a very significant resource on the subject!
Another great resource with video.
I responded to this post days ago but it has not been published. Why?
Carboxylation is the last st that turns calcitonin and Matrix GLA proteins into functional chemistry in the body. This is done by MK4 vitamin K2 and to a lesser extent by the MK7 form. Both of these are needed for calcium metabolism, calcitonin works to build new bone and Matrix GLA reverses calcification of the arteries.
The body turns vitamin K into MK4 vitamin K2 for this purpose. With age or high cortisol levels, MK4 production declines and patients experience bone loss and artery calcification. A supplement of MK4 is then needed. Several trials from Japan show a 60% to 80% reduction in bone breakage rates for the elderly with 45 mg of MK4 daily.
Yes, MK4 works for bones, but there are no studies that show a benefit for calcification of the arteries. Only MK-7 works to reduce arterial calcification, as shown in studies.
I just corresponded with a physician overseas undergoing a study on 1000 micrograms of MK-7 to decalcify the aorta. He advised me to use 720+ micrograms MK7 daily. While I greatly appreciated his advice, I have to ask others what they think, because I have been giving my mom (with severe mitral valve stenosis) 10mg MK4 Carlson brand and 360 micrograms MK7 Utzy Naturals brand daily for 9 months. I just want to make sure we are doing the best thing for her. Please, if you have any input we would appreciate hearing from you. Thank you, Daniel
Any thoughts on supplement versions? Trying to determine MenaQ7 vs. Menaquin Gold products. Any of these better than the other? Using Kon K now, I just don’t see a lot about it. Important to be giving mom something that is very effective with her heart issue. Thanks for input.
I don’t know who wrote the K2 article. It is incomplete the way it is now. The author mentions the book, Vitamin K2 and the Calcium Paradox: How a Little-Known Vitamin Could Save Your Life, by Kate Rheaume-Bleue, but he or she apparently didn’t read it, because it is necessary for Vit A (retinol) and Vit D3 to be present for Vit K2 to do its job of keeping out of the arteries and other soft tissues, and to put it into bones and teeth. A paraphrased sub-title in the Calcium Paradox book is: Vit D, Vit K 2 and Vit A: Better Together.
I encourage everyone to read the Calcium Paradox book.
Albinka – agreed 100%
Way too many miss the A-D-MK7 ratio and provide harmful advice that could lead to hypervitaminosis. I have found supporting research for Kate’s ratio and sent it directly to her.
Jeff
Albinos and Jeff: Chris has written elsewhere about the synergy between vitamins A, D & K. See
https://chrismasterjohnphd.com/blog/2016/12/03/start-here-for-vitamin-k2/
https://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/abcs-of-nutrition/nutritional-adjuncts-to-the-fat-soluble-vitamins/
It’s interesting that the necessity for both A and D was known in 1941 but the medical profession today has forgotten it.
If a person is taking 3000 mg of D3, how much K MK-7, MK-4, Vitamin A should they be taking? Thank you for your help. I have severe dry eyes from Sjogrens so I can’t read allot of books & I have a limited ability on the computer as well. If you can help me it would be appreciated. Ty
I am not an MD and have one concern, the regression of CAC scores via MK7. Please see an ophthalmologist. I do 2x a year.
56 and 20/10 vision – no glasses required other than for reading very small print.
Awesome article… I’m interested in increasing my k2 and was thinking about taking it in a tablet to increas my dose. But Im on xeljanz ( tofacitinib) to treat my ulcerative colitis and one of the side effects is it can increase cholesterol levels. So was wondering if you may now if I can take a supplement of K2 whilst I’m on xeljanz especially if xeljanz my affect my cholesterol.
Is there a sortable list of the Vit K2 database?
Thank you for all of your work
BIG question here, as everyone talks about calcification of arteries. Can we assume that K2 will ALSO improve calcified heart VALVES? Mom has severe mitral valve stenosis, started her on daily 5mg MK4 (Carlson brand) and 180 mcg MK7 (Utzy naturals). Mitral valve area started as severe (Area = 0.96 cm2) to now at moderate (1.12 cm2) six months later. I am thinking we want to increase the dosage (basically double it) as progress seems slow. Can anyone offer comments please thank you so much. Daniel
It may take 12 to 18 months for fully reverse this although you should hve good progress by 6 months. The MK4 form will work for calcified valves as well.
You might increase the dosage, but also consider including a vitamin D supplement and a retinol vitamin A supplement. Both of these contribute to calcium control. The vitamin D3 increases the supply of the Matrix GLA protein that prevents calcium in the arteries and the retinol vitamin A makes the Matrix GLA more effective and reduces the rate of kidney stones. Best of luck with this!
David thanks. Gave Mom 5000 i u D3 for years without K2 which we think contributed to this problem. She is taking so many heart pills we are trying not to add more. terrible. We have doubled the k2 dosages and now blood pressure is coming down which I believe should be expected side effect?
What is MatrixGLA, and does it help to supplement with liquid GLA?
David has a solid understanding of this. Well done David.
Other’s get the book by Kate – no affiliation.
Folks you have been very helpful. Do you have any consensus on Koncentrated K capsules which contain 25mg of K2 MK4 and .5 mg of K2 Mk7? Looks great, Thinking of trying this out on Mom valve stenosis. I bought it just seeing if others have experience using it.
Appreciate your thoughts.
Hello!
I have a A1298C mutation. I would like to take k2 but I am a bit worried about the rick of clotting. I take daily 75 mg aspirin to prevent and my blod tests are normal.
I have been searching for info regarding k2 and blod clotting but I can only find people who take warfarin. Could you please tell me if it’s ok to take k2 and if so, how much?
Thank you!
Hi 🙂 thanks so much for this article. I am vegan and have recently learned that it is not uncommon for vegans to lack K2 (although I don’t know what symptoms I should be looking for, or tests that could be done to determine this)
I have tried buying the three recommended K2 products but none deliver to Australia. Could you please recommend one that does?
Thankyou
Often there are K2 dosage restrictions related to vitamin K that get applied to imports which are totally unrealistic. You may be able to order the Thorne liquid K2 which doesn’t come in a specific dose. iherb also supplies to a number of countries with import restrictions. See if you can find nearby discussion groups on the MK4 vitamin K2 and ask there about suppliers.
Emma, the major problem with buying from the US is the extortionate postage charges by the United States Postal Service. They regard those of us who post internationally as a cash cow that they can milk without a political backlash. (so just like Australia Post then) To make it affordable you generally need to buy from someone like iHerb who’ve organised alternative shipping arrangements to bypass USPS.
I’ve bought Carlson’s 5mg MK-4 from iHerb
https://au.iherb.com/pr/Carlson-Labs-Vitamin-K2-MK-4-Menatetrenone-5-mg-180-Capsules/14812
iHerb seems to charge Australian customers 12% more than US customers and then there’s 10% GST on top. OTOH they don’t charge freight if you order $US40 or more.
I also take 180mcg MK-7. This brand which I buy at Chemist Warehouse
https://www.chemistwarehouse.com.au/buy/73731/nature-s-way-osteo-k-vitamin-k2-180mcg-30-soft-capsules
The US products all seem to be 100mcg and work out more expensive on a per mcg basis.
An interesting product is Patrick Theut’s Koncentrated K
https://www.k-vitamins.com/index.php?page=Home
It’s expensive but offers a high dose of MK-4 and MK-7 at the lowest per-dose cost I’ve seen. Pat says he hasn’t made a profit on the product and I believe it. Pat is a small operator so has to use USPS. You need to buy 2 at a time to amortise the postage cost.
BTW it’s well worth reading Pat’s “My Story” on the Koncentrated K website and watching some of his video talks and interviews. Ivor Cummins interviewed Pat for his Fat Emperor series and Pat gave some talks to the Wausau Wellness Center, all of which you can find on YouTube.
Unless you are a regular consumer of natto, as a vegan you are almost certainly deficient in K2 since the principal sources of K2 are animal products or fermented foods like cheese. The human body has very little ability to convert K1 to K2. In regard to the consequences of Vitamin K2 deficiency they are principally osteoporosis and calcification of the arteries which are in effect two sides of the same coin. Your body needs K2 to make the hormone that deposits calcium in your bones and prevents the Ca being deposited in your soft tissues. To determine whether you have those conditions requires a bone density scan for osteoporosis and a Coronary Artery Calcification scan will indicate the degree of calcification of your soft tissues.
If the bone density scan indicates osteoporosis your doctor will probably want to prescribe a bisphosphonate drug such as Fosamax. This will improve your bone density scores which will make the doctor happy but not prevent fractures because it results in brittle bone that can fracture in normal walking. It also has a nasty side effect known as Osteonecrosis of the Jaw whereby the bone in your jaw dies following dental work, causing disfigurement and requiring facial reconstruction surgery. So refuse to take it
To recover from osteoporosis you need:
1) Adequate levels of Vitamin D either from sun exposure or supplements, in the region of 50-60 Ng/ml. Get tested. You need Vitamin D to absorb the calcium from your diet
2) Adequate calcium and phosphate in your diet, since bones are composed of calcium phosphate in a protein matrix. The best source of calcium phosphate is milk and dairy products (another strike against vegans)
3) Vitamin K2 from diet and/or supplements. Because there isn’t an easy way to test Vit K2 status it’s prudent to take supplements
4) You have to ensure adequate protein in your diet, 1.2 grams of more of protein per kg of body weight. Note that this is 50% more than the Recommended Daily Allowance of 0.8gm/kg, which tells you how much reliance you can place on the RDAs and the dietitians who regard them as holy writ.
5) Last but certainly not least, you have to undergo load-bearing exercise to stress the bones and provoke bone deposition. Both bedridden patients and astronauts lose bone mass through lack of stress on the bones. The exercise can be walking or lifting weights or something as simple as skipping rope.
For more on osteoporosis read the blog of Robert Heaney
http://blogs.creighton.edu/heaney/
Until his recent death Heaney was probably the preeminent researcher into osteoporosis.
I’ll write more about the implications of a CAC score later.
Yes Emma, Vegans are often Vitamin K deficient. You would not likely notice any symptoms, even though you are likely building up calcium in your arterial linings and heart valves. VK2 can be shipped to Australia. I hope this info is helpful to you
Hi Emma,
Vegans will be deficient in vitamin K2, MK-4, because it is only found in animal foods. Too bad you couldn’t take advantage of the wonderful source of K2 -MK-4 -found in Australian emu oil, such as Emu Tracks, which is in a food matrix and well-absorbed by humans. MK-4 is the ONLY bio-active form of vitamin K2 for humans. We are not bacteria. However, there is much controversy about bioavailability and absorption of supplements in general, which are most often made in a lab and not from natural food substances, nor are they located in a food matrix as are nutrients in food. You may absorb a limited amount of MK-4 from an artificial supplement but who knows how much? I recommend a natural source which is much more bioavailable.
I’m not sure why so many have complained about the cost of shipping to Australia. The cost of shipping 1 or 2 bottles of vK2 is $16.25 (First-Class Mail International)
3 bottles ship for $25.50
Hi, I’d like to know about vitamin K2 supplementation for a person with coronary artery disease. Does it help?
Yes, it is helpful for improving artery calcification and has been listed so by the Health Ministry of Japan since 1995. Calcification level is one of the best predictors of cardiac disease so controlling it is vital. The K2 enables an MGP protein to work well. Taking 5000 IU of vitamin D3 boosts production of MGP and 10,000 IU of Retinol vitamin A helps control calcium by improving MGP production and lowering kidney stone formation.
Don’t skip the other paths to cardiac health such as adopting a low carbohydrate diet, improving nitric oxide function with daily arginine between meals, reducing triglycerides with 100 mg of plain Niacin several times a day, and taking the gamma form of vitamin E to reduce clotting.
Thank you so much! These comments are so helpful. The mainstream medical community does not have much to offer.
Yes Susan, Vitamin K2 is helpful in improving arterial calcification. MK4 is the form most useful for that, while MK7 is the form most useful for improving bone density.
VK2® provides both MK4 and MK7
Please advise how much Vit D should be taken with Vit K2-7. Thanks
Take the vitamin D3 for its own benefit, usually blood levels of 50 to 80 ng/ml in American units are optimal for best health. This tends to be a dose of 10,000 IU of D3 for those with normal fat absorption. The vitamin K2 works with the MGP proteins that are boosted by taking more vitamin D3.
Have a look at taking the MK4 form of vitamin K2 which is ,what the body makes for its own use. The MK4 functions in many more places than the MK7 form does.
Jeronimo,
The idea is to have sufficient Vitamin K2 to activate all of the Vitamin K2 Dependent proteins (VKDP) in your body.
That exact amount has not been exactly determined.
Certainly, taking Vitamin D3, which stimulates the production of VKDPs, increases the demand for Vitamin K2.
Numerous factors which might impact how much Vitamin K2 is needed include: how much Vitamin D is being taken, what medications are being taken, overall health status etc.
Each capsule of VK2® contains 5mg of MK4 and 100 mcg of MK7. Its recommended to take one capsule of VK2® for every 5000iu of vitamin D3
I have a hereditary stroke possibility, from the female line. Have you heard of this and do you think Vit K is involved?
While improving general circulation health will help prevent strokes, the next thing is to figure out if these are strokes due to clotting or due to bleeding, then address the specific cause. Strokes can be caused either due to clotting or due to bleeding.
The MK4 vitamin K2 would help with general circulation health and if there is artery calcification present, it improves this and the condition of the blood vessels. This should help both kinds of strokes. There can still be problems with artery narrowing or excessive clotting that need to be addressed by lowering insulin levels with a low carbohydrate diet, taking plain Niacin (see doctoryourself.com) and looking up a variety of actors like alpha lipoid acid. Dr Louis Ignarro has an interesting book out on heart disease. The gamma form of vitamin E is effective for lowing INR and blood clotting.
For bleeding strokes the important thing is blood vessel wall integrity. This emphasizes building the connective tissue in the blood vessels with enough protein, vitamin C, and copper.
Don’t let the doctor tell you to not take vitamin K2, it doesn’t function strongly in clotting, has been shown in extensive readership trials to not induce clotting and has been safe even at high doses. Do have a talk with a qualified health professional on your particular stroke type. Just remember that doctors are not trained in nutrition and the medical references are decades out of date on vitamins.
Still seeking a one dose, 300 to 360 microgram mk7 pill for mom, as she takes so many heart pills. The kicker- we prefer no soy but rather chickpea based. Can anyone help us? Thanks so much
Daniel,
If your mom has heart issues, perhaps mk4 may be a better choice . VK2 has both MK4 and MK7.
If you visit the site, you can watch videos that explain in details
Daniel —
I came across this K2 MK-7 on Amazon: Rejuvenation Therapeutics Vitamin K2 MK-7 has 300 mcg capsules almost double the strength of any other brand on Amazon. All natural and derived from natto beans. Here’s a link:
amazon.com/Rejuvenation-Therapeutics-Clinically-Powerful-Capsules/dp/B0765NLPR3/ref=pd_ybh_a_1?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=S2S79QMHZ51HJTB552N0
Yes I have a bottle of this in my possession but it is natto based. Mom has a soy sensitivity will this affect her? Also, the manufacture date was 2017? What do you think about that?
Hi Daniel,
Have you tried Andrew Lessman vitamins? I order all of my vitamins from him. The products contain no soy, and are all 100 percent guaranteed. He has several VK2-MK7 products. All ingredients are the best available. My mom and I have been taking his vitamins for the past 20 years and we will only use his products. He will be appearing on HSN network next month in Oct. if you want to check him out. Good luck and best wishes!
Hi Chris
I am an 85 year old female.
I have been on the diet for at least 10 years.
I just discovered the vit. K2.
I have severe dizziness and am hoping that the vit K2 will help.
I take vitamins from constantin they are very good..
I am so happy that I am on your list
Yours very sincerely
Elisabeth
Sorry, I should have asked about the D3 dosage also. There are tons of 5000 IU products. That would be the easiest thing to buy. I’ve read widely varying opinions about safe dosage levels. Two commenters elsewhere said that dose caused them to fall down a lot, one person breaking an elbow. When they dialed back the amount they stopped falling down. There are other concerns as well. How do we know what to believe here? Thanks again.
I’m thinking of taking a D3/MK7 supplement that would give me 360 mcg of MK7 per day. This is more than all daily dosages I’ve seen, but based on the reading I’ve done, it’s probably OK. Is this correct? Thank you.
Van,
Research has not determined the maximum safe amount to take, but there are certainly many factors that need to be considered. The more vitamin D you take, the greater the demand for vitamin K2. For a very informative video on topic, please visit http://www. v-k2.com
Hello!
Have you heard of the supplement Mega-Quinone K2-7 from Microbiome Labs? I didn’t see it in your reviews and I am wondering what your thoughts are on it?
I’m asking in regards to someone who has Osteopenia. In the “Calcium Paradox” book you mentioned in your recommended reading, the author recommends 240mg MK-7 for those who have Osteopenia or Osteoporosis, and it also mentions K2 supplements with K1 included in them are not necessary. The Mega-Quinone K2-7 supplement actually has 320mg of MK-7 from fermented chickpeas and includes 100mg K1 and Magnesium “for absorbability” purposes. Do you believe this dose is too high? What if that person is taking a high dose of Vitamin D3 in conjunction? Would they then be ok as long as they up their Vit. A intake?
Stephanie, you may want to consider both MK4 and MK7. Please check out http://www.v-k2.com
There is a video clip which explains why
What about MK7 re estrogen production related to potential breast cancer reoccurrence in women treated for breast cancer?
I ordered a bottle of Ultra K2 from Stop Aging Now. The K is listed as menatetrenone. One capsule has 15,000 mcg and they recommend 1 capsule per day. Is this amount too much? The bottle says that is 12,500% of the daily dose!
That is a reasonable dose for the MK4 form of vitamin K2. Doses used in research have ranged from 1.5 mg to 135 mg daily with 15 mg three times a day (45 mg) being the most typical research dose. This gives the best results in research trials but lower doses have been tested successfully.
I had great success in taking 1.3 mg for 12 months with artery calcification. I notice a few improvements in going to a 6.5 mg daily dose so many people can be helped with a 1 mg to 10 mg dose. If you have hazardous medical concerns with bone loss or artery calcification, taking the 45 mg per day dose can be justified as this requires the best possible results.
Medical references have been very conservative on qualifying MK4 vitamin K2 with a traditional 120 mcg dose for Vitamin K. This dose ignores all the many research papers on MK4 and that the Japan Ministry of Health has listed MK4 vitamin K2 as a treatment for cardiac disease and bone loss since 1995. Th eMK4 form has been tested as low in side effects even at doses of 135 mg (135,000 mcg) per day, so the 22.5 mg is safe.
Which mk4 or mk7 dosage is most important?
is it ok to take k2 with D3 or it should separate?
Tamer,
I suggest you visit http://wwwv-k2.com
There is a ton of info that you can read and there is also 2 videos that you can watch.
The short answer is that both mk4 and mk7are important as they each have different qualities. Yes vitamin K2 can (and should) be taken at the same time as Vitamin D3
Just came back from the hospital where moms Echo showed mitral valve area going up from 0.96 cm squared to 1.12 cm squared in 6 months. Using daily five mg MK4 Carlson brand and 180 MCG mk7 utzy Naturals brand. I think we’re going to double the dose of both. Please comment!
What are your thoughts on K2 while thru hiking or long distance hiking?
I have heart disease , 3 vessel stenosis, I believe statins help to stabilise the plaque by calcification, I want to take K2 MK7, will this destabilise the atherosclerotic plaques and make them more prone to rupture, when K2 MK7 starts to remove the calcium build up , I am struggling to find a suitable answer to this question.
Regards
Gary
I hope someone can provide some insight on this for Gary….thank you.
In 2007 I had three vessels calcified to 90% plugged. Went on statins , cholesterol down to 131 in 2015. In 2016 learn of K2’s. started on MK7 and MK4 back and forth. Cholesterol shot up to 281 last year. went back on statins for a month plus B3 till my net test, Cholesterol down to 181. two months ago started on thoren vitamin D3 1000IU/mk4 . 2 drops 200mcg , vitamin d3 5000IU, Boron 3mg, Vitamin A 2662 IU, Mega COCQ 10, Astaxanthin 12mg. Had particle test two weeks ago–cholesterol 198, partial size and number in range. I’m still standing upright.
Watch this. Will explain about K2 and statins driving up cholesterol.
Hope this helps. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4RipKub_Y8
you may also want to check out these clips:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfy8Gmbj14c&t=1s
and
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjOsDL1dhJE
This is not an in-depth answer but it does come from the website of Dr. Kate Who wrote the book… Vitamin K2 and the calcium paradox…
Since K2 reduces plaque, won’t it increase the risk of a clot or heart attack as pieces of the plaque break off?
This is a FAQ since as we understand K2 helps reduce arterial plaque it is easy to imagine it being chipped away or breaking off in chunks. That is not the way K2 shrinks plaque and K2 supplementation has never been associated with a cardiovascular event. In fact, vitamin K2-dependent proteins make plaque more stable and less prone to rupture. Recent clinical trials for reducing plaque in a group known to be at high risk for calcifications used MK-7 in does of around 360 mcg per day with no significant adverse effects (a few participants experienced stomach upset at this dose).
I don’t know if this would help but it might be worth reading:
https://www.lifeextension.com/Magazine/2016/2/Slow-the-Progression-of-Atherosclerotic-Plaque/Page-01
I have been taking this Arterial product 2X per day which is twice their article recommendation and I take additional 100 mg. Pycnogenol at 2X per day since some studies seemed to have some stabilization effects at high doses. This is a fairly expensive treatment at these doses.
I also take K2, D3 and A.
Won’t really know if this is working for me until my next scan in Nov 2019. but it looked like something to try since I have 2 blockages at around 90% as of last Nov scan.
This is not a recommendation for you, but I felt that in my case it seemed worth a try.
Have you had an update scan? How are you doing?
Gary, I have some stenosis in 2 vessels and a calcium score of 579 3 years ago, probably a little higher now.
The thing is to stop focus on removing or stabilizing plaque, but on stopping depositing it. To do that I went on a whole food plant-based diet with no added oils, per Dr. Esselsstyn. Great results, not as hard as I had thought. But it does take grit and determination at first. It has a good track record, and you can find out more by watching the movie “Forks Over Knives”.
It works for me, my doctor agrees, and I’m on zero statins, BP went from 140/90 to 110/70, not bad for 73 years old. No meds at all, no stents, nothing. I climb long flights of stairs several times a week and workout with weights.
I believe that so long as you are providing dietary building blocks for plaque, the body will use them and to hell with all your vitamins and drugs, the disease will progress anyway. By not putting in things which damage your endothelium (inner layer of cells inside the artery walls) it works to stop and reverse the disease. I would advise this diet for a few months, then start program of exercise to reverse the disease WHILE on the diet. Don’t exercise prior to the diet, it can raise risk a lot. besta luck, pal Bob
..BTW, coronary calcium scores may vary and there’s no really good studies on them responding to diets and other things, however, it is known that when plaque begins to go away on whole food plant-based diets, calcium scores at first rise. This is the body throwing in some extra calcium to stabilize the softening plaque and prevent ruptures and lessen clot risk. It knows, it’s been there before in the millions of years of our evolution. This data is per Dr. William Castelli, former director of Framingham Heart Study. Calcium is about 20-25 percent of plaque volume, so if you lose 10 percent soft plaque and gain 10 percent calcium, you’re way ahead. Exercise will drive collateral artery formation around the blockages, but is risky if the diet is atherogenic (sat fat, cholesterol) since it weakens the fibrous cap over the plaque. The whole food plant-based diet strengthens this cap and makes you heart attack proof from plaque ruptures, which is 90 percent of heart attacks right there. Dr. Esselstyn says it takes about 3 weeks for this to happen on the diet. I’d say give it 2-3 months before exercising in earnest. I have seen 2 people taken out from my gym on gurneys in the same week, they probably thought if they exercised, they could eat whatever they wanted. This is backwards!! If you eat right you can exercise all you want is more like it.
Well, from my understanding, artery calcification is mostly caused by chronic inflammation not high cholesterol per se. A low carb/sugar diet along with avoiding Veg/Seed oils (PUFAS) at all costs. A whole foods, Ketogenic diet along w/ a targeted D3, K2 (MK4 & MK7), Magnesium, Zinc, Vit A. , etc. I’d check out Ivor Cummins interviews/lectures/vids on YT for starters. I try to keep updated & take in as much info as I can. It’s been said recently (not in any mainstream media way mind you) that Diabetes IS Pre-Heart Disease. A Ketogenic diet (or some cases simply a low-carb diet) reverses T2 Diabetes & Pre-T2 Diabetes. So, it stands to reason.
PUFAs aren’t bad for you. Let’s not demonize another nutrient. The problem with some PUFAs, specifically the omega-6s, is not keeping them in balance with the omega-3s. See https://www.diagnosisdiet.com/arachidonic-acid/ for one example of an important and necessary omega-6 PUFA.
Still, don’t use seed oils to get them—maybe try some lard—because throwing off your fatty acid ratio is hardly the only problem with industrial oils. They go rancid, oxidize, and are apt to contain residues of solvents and other noxious chemicals used in their processing.
Not for nothing, but when I said PUFAs, I did in fact mean Seed Oils/Veg Oils, kinda goes without saying. Every lecture or interview I’ve ever watched or read on this subject, everyone typically using the term PUFAs for Seed Oils. I thought it safe to assume you knew what I was talking about when I used the term PUFAs. However, your critique is duly noted.
Are you talking about Flaxseed Oil? I just ordered a bottle to help with my dry eyes. Please let me know, TY
I would love to know the K2 content of Liver and bone marrow. I hear both are good sources of K2.
http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2008/11/vitamin-k2-in-marrow.html
Natural Vitamin K2-7 is very important for healthy life e.g. Bone health, Diabetes management and Muscle health etc.
MenaquinGold is the most researched natural vitamin k2.
This is properly explained in this page.
https://www.synergialifesciences.com/natural-vitamin-k2-menaquingold.html
Is mk7 safe in a kidney transplant recipient?
Is there any way to counteract the insomnia caused by mk-7? I need to take it but I need my sleep!
Do you take magnesium? Perhaps take K2 in the morning and Magnesium citrate in the afternoon? I’ve found K2 and Mg work in unison for me (but I don’t have to take them at the exact same time)…
Hi Michelle,
You have the classic symptoms of being sensitive to the MK7 form of vitamin K2. There are anxiety, sleeplessness, a thumping heart beat, and possibly raised blood pressure. The solution is to stop taking the MK7 vitamin K2 and switch to the MK4 form which is native to all mammals and has few side effects in the human body. Typical doses for the MK4 form are 1 mg to 5 mg, and higher if there is a serious medical risk. Carlson makes a good 5 mg MK4 only tablet and Thorne makes a liquid MK4.
The MK7 has a half life of 3.5 days in the body so I may take a while to clear out. Know that natto is a fermented bean that contains very large amounts of MK7. The MK7 is made by bacteria and it is only partly functional in the dozen tissues that MK4 works in.
If the MK4 is being taken to improve bone strength or reduce artery calcification, note that 5000 to 10,000 IU of vitamin D3 and a similar amount of Retinol vitamin A will help by boosting production of the calcium handling proteins that MK4 activates. Taking 200-400 mg magnesium and 12 mg boron will also be helpful.
In my case I resolved a 20 year case of artery calcification in 12-18 months by taking 1.3 mg of MK4 daily. So the MK4 form will be more effective and and work better than the MK7 form.
David,
Do you have a blog where you talk about the details of your journey of resolving the calcification? I am very interested….thank you.
Hi Mr. Sander:
When you resolved your 20 year problem did you get a calcium CT score before and after.
If so, can you please share with us what the scores were?
I used similar amounts Boron at the 12 mg and magnesium citrate at 800 mg per day (the Carlson Mk4 2x day) same D and A plus 360 micro’s of MK 7 and a strict Mediterranean diet and my CT score increased at 35% per year.
Boom! Great answer, David. Another reason why I’m a fan of mk4 over mk7 👌🏼
Hello, please help me. I took Mk7 by Jarrow for about a year and added coral calcium to the mix and my head started to grow. Im not sure why I continued to use it but I ended even getting vitamin d3 and k2 drops after and it grew more. Now I can barely stand my appearance because I feel it made me look worse. Is there any possibility it can reverse?
Have you asked any guys? I’d find that kind of hot, myself, brainy lady with cute face wow. I think if you stopped doing the calcium it should stop happening, though, just my opinion, I would do that. I’m bald, so my head bigger, probably not good. Best of luck,
Heather, more likely your eyes got smaller or your brain got smaller so your head looks bigger. The only documented head growth is among bald headed men. That’s why bald headed men like Robert Luhrs are smarter.
Heather,
All kidding aside you may ask your physician to test you for acromegaly, excess growth hormone. There are good reasons to believe that K2 and calcium supplements would contribute to acromegaly skull growth. The cure is pituitary brain surgery.
Well, actually my head got smaller since taking vitamin K2., then again I lost 40lbs. So if the weight is the same then the head size should be the same. My dad at work played a trick on a guy who just got a raise and told everyone else. He put a one inchstrip of newspaper inside his hatband every day, then had everyone come around and watch while he put on his hat. Really freaked him out.
similar amount of Retinol vitamin A will help by boosting production of the calcium handling proteins that MK4 activates. Taking 200-400 mg magnesium and 12 mg boron will also be helpful.
In my case I resolved a 20 year case of artery calcification in 12-18 months by taking 1.3 mg of MK4 daily. So the MK4 form will be more effective and and work better than the MK7 form
such huge dose of retinol “am concerned for side effects ‘are we deficient nowadays in vitamin a at all ?
your great results with mk4 doesn’t tell me anything about mk7 would miss to give you same results “
The solution to this is to stop taking the MK7 and replace it with an equivalent 1 mg to 5 mg dose of an MK4 only form of vitamin K2. Virtually all of the time this solves the problem.
Hi Chris. Thx for great info on K-2. Perhaps you might be able to add clarity on blood thinners and K-2. You mentioned anti-coagulant coumadin. What about Plavix/clopidogrel, which differs somewhat is I believe anti-platelet. I’ve read that K-2 and Plavix will not interact. Perhaps you can address?!…
I know, I should contact my doc, but my cardiologist is useless (MI last year at 56, 2 stents, am now solidly LCHF and endeavoring to prolong life, excited about K-2’s reported mortality reduction….
I’m trying to find a supplement for mom who has very high valve calcification, specifically in the mitral valve. I’ve had her on MK-7 150mcg daily (“Solaray triple strength K2”) for two months and not sure if this is helping. Thinking we need the MK-4 as well. Is this better for valve calcification? The ones recommended may require two dosages to get where she needs and she is already taking so many pills for her heart. Thanks so much for your input. Daniel
I’m no doctor but I’ve experienced better outcomes from switching to mk4, as in the calcification on the rear of lower front teeth chips away by itself/more easily, and my skin improves. I can’t speak of valve/soft tissue calcification but it makes sense evolutionarily to me that mk4 would be more necessary and effective than mk7. I think Thorne Research drops are a good brand and they come along with D3. Add some vitamin A (or consume liver regularly). I would also suggest taking Magnesium citrate 100-200mg as well – I’ve noticed that K2 and Magnesium work better together for me. These are the only supplements I take. The book, The Calcium Paradox, explains well how these vitamins interplay with each other.
Thanks, I found Jarrow K-Right which has 1500 mcg of MK-4 and 180 mcg of MK-7, plus 2000 IU D3 along with K1 (not sure if important or problematic). Anyone seen this one?
I’ve also heard vitamin A. Can she take beta-carotene or does it need to be A and how much? Thanks again for your advice.
Hi there,
Beta-carotene is the plant version of vitamin A and nowhere near as bio-available to humans as the animal-sourced version of vitamin A (Retinyl palmitate or acetate). Liver or pâté is best, but if not consuming those things, a good supplement may help. I take 5000iu retinyl palmitate per day or sometimes just 25,000iu per week instead…
marrow is a good brand too 👍🏼
In all my reading I’ve never heard about the vitamin A importance can you please elaborate on that. Thank you Katy!
This is quoted directly from Kate Rheaume-Bleue’s book: ‘Vitamin A plays a valuable role in managing the body’s need for vitamin K2. On a molecular level, it is precisely this misunderstood role that gave vitamin A an undeserved bad rap. Vitamin D stimulates the production of vitamin K2–dependent gla proteins, thereby increasing the body’s demand for vitamin K2 and the potential to benefit from K2. That makes vitamin D a superstar because the more vitamin K2–dependent proteins you make, the more calcium you can direct into bones and away from arteries, if you have the K2 to activate those proteins. So vitamin D looks good. Here’s where things get tricky. Working together, A and D synergistically improve osteocalcin production.’
This is only a fraction of the info she goes into in her book. I can’t recommend it enough.
And this:
‘Vitamin A has a K2-sparing action; having adequate amounts of retinol reduces the demand for K2, allowing your body to get by on less menaquinone.’
Jarrow 😄
Although eating marrow (from bones) is awesome for health, too 👌🏼
Adding the Retinol vitamin A results in the formation of more Matrix GLA proteins which are activated by MK4 vitamin K2. This was used in one trial to reduce the number of kidney stones some patients were getting from high dose vitamin D3 treatment. So vitamins K2 and A work synergistically to control calcium metabolism to good ends.
Note that vitamins A and D3 are needed in a balanced proportion or ratio and there is little specific research on this. I found that an optimal amount of each was 10,000 IU of D3 and 30,000 IU of Retinol vitamin A.
There is no harm in taking Vitamin K1, but it is not needed. Vitamin K1 deficiency is very rare. Vitamin A is a good to take, but taking beta-carotene is not such a good idea.
I recommend vK2 which contains both MK-4 and MK-7. Each capsule is intended to be taken with each capsule of 5000 iu Vitamin D3
Does anyone know the best ratio of D3 to K2? For years my mom was taking 5000 iu D3 without K2 at all. I now have her on 1500 mcg MK4, 180 mcg MK7, and this is combined with 2000 iu D3 daily. Since I am concerned about not overloading her again with D3, is this balance, combined with magnesium, safe? Is 2000 id D3 daily going to put her back in dangerous territory? Thank you, Daniel
Its not an easy answer. In general the idea is to have enough vitamin K2 to activate all the Vitamin K Dependent Proteins (VKDP).
Vitamin D stimulates the production of VKDP, which is why vitamin D increases the demand for Vitamin K. That being said, there is no harm to take more vitamin D3 (up to a limit) but it wont provide additional benefits w/o having sufficient vitamin K to activated all the VKDP that the additional vitamin D3 would stimulate. Thats for vitamin D3. Vitamin D2 on the hand can be toxic if taken too much.
Another point to consider is that MK4 is more suitable for activating MGP, while MK7 is more suitable for activating OC.
That’s why its important to supplement with both MK4 and MK7.
The bottom line is that the exact ratio of vitamin K2: Vitamin D to achieve activation of all VKDP has not been determined yet and would depend on if we are talking about MK4 or MK7.
vK2 contains 5mg of MK4 and 100 mcg of MK7. We estimate this to be an optimal amount to take with 5,000 iu of vitamin D3
Eric summarizes in this post what I learned by studying the literature and Dr. Masterjohn’s summary.
One addition is that Vitamin K2 substitutes more efficiently than ubiquinol in the mitochondrial electron transport chain. Cross comparison of bicycle teams showed 7% improved aerobic performance with 200 mcg of K2 in the diet. 7% is enough to win a bicycle race. Lance Armstrong commented on his web site that a high dose of K2 causes finger tips to tingle. Mine do because I supplement with my own fermented Bacillus subtilis/liver/limburger pate. I guarantee you Lance Armstrong was taking more than 200 mcg K2 per day. I find it amusing that he was sanctioned for blood doping and testosterone when perfectly legal K2 gave him >25% aerobic advantage. ☺☺
I’m still struggling with a decision that will affect mom’s hypercalcemia outcome: She dosed 5000iu without k2 for years. Has valve stenosis. Now on mk4 and mk7 but do I even need D3? I don’t want any additional calcium in the bloodstream but rather to stabilize or remove it. Please let me know if this is correct thinking. Thank you.
Daniel, check out this YouTube interview:
https://thefatemperor.com/want-to-reverse-your-calcification-and-heart-disease-heres-how-podcast-ep21/
Might have some useful info…
The most sensitive and numerical test for progress reversing calcification and stenosis is pulse wave velocity. Accurate home testing devices were offered by Nokia for $1000 until FDA demanded an approval. Nokia no longer offers the device in USA. Smuggle one in from Europe. FDA approved devices cost $10,000. Find a clinic.
My dr recommended D3 2500 IU, how much V K2 MK 7/ Mk 4 should I take?
Best way to know, and perhaps the only way to really know is a D3 blood test. They are not very expensive and seem to be accurate.
For my clients, I look for a value of 60 ng/ml or above – I prefer 80 ng/ml as an excellent value. I have some clients in the 90’s.
I go with 5000 mcg MK4 2xDay and 400 mcg MK7 along with 5000 up to 10000 vitamin A pre-formed.
I can’t give you medical advice for your mother (or you) but these are the values I use for myself and clients. Your mother may have different goals/values.
Thank you for this great information. I am trying to stabilize or hopefully improve her stenosis and calcification without doing something that would worsen it. Mom is a bit heavy and her D3 is low, 40. I had her on 5000 iu for years without K2. Now only 2000 iu as I am afraid to bump it up again.
it seems like my values are on the low side, but she is taking so many heart pills. I hope what I am doing will be helpful, comments appreciated.
Additionally….how important is vitamin “A” for this, as I read hardly anything about it. More pills for mom…trying to avoid it.
My MK7 supplement we prefer is sourced from soy. I know there are other options but we are using this one right now because we like the other ingredients. How critical is this if you have a possible sensitivity to soy? It seems like such a small amount. Thank you. Daniel
For artery calcification several things are involved. The MK4 vitamin K2 is essential to carboxylate the Matrix GLA protein that reverses calcification. Taking the vitamin D3 is fine as this boosts the levels of calcium handling proteins. In addition, taking the Retinol form of vitamin A also results in better Matrix GLA production and this is reflected in how Retinol is able to reduce rates of kidney stones. She should also get magnesium daily.
My best guess for this series would be.
5000 IU of vitamin D3
15,000 IU of Retinol vitamin A
5 mg of MK4 vitamin K2 three times a day. More would be acceptable.
200-400 mg of magnesium citrate or a more gentle taurate.
Thank you so much all. I’m wishing I had some test feedback to determine if the vitamin regimen is working. Those scans and such are not readily available here in Pittsburgh PA. I’m wondering if I can assess mom by checking her on a monthly basis with regard to activity tolerance. I have no other way to know. Should I expect to see a change within months, or years? She was supposed to have mitral valve surgery a few months ago, and we decided too risky. Thus the vitamin and lifestyle changes.
See if you can get her eating a few carrots each week for the A. 2 average carrots/day is a nice amount to load up on, then maybe one a day would be good. My own remedy for my calcium is a whole food plant-based diet. Not for everyone, but the ones who do it, never have any more heart problems, strokes, even diabetes is eased off. The study participants who didn’t do it, most of then either had heart attack, stroke, or death in a few years’ time. But they were only 10 percent of the group, the rest had zero of those things. So it is do-able. Dr. Caldwell Esselstyn did the studies on this.
Animal-derived vitamin A is far more bioavailable than beta-carotene from carrots. A significant percentage of people can not even convert it at all! I’m a big fan of animal-based diets for being far more nutrient dense. But you must do your own research and decide for yourself.
Hi Daniel…there is a product from Forefront Health that combines these three fat soluble vitamins in one convenient bottle. It’s liquid, so no more pills to take. The ratios are good too, each serving size is 7 drops and you can take a dose with each meal if you prefer more than one serving per day. I’m not affiliated with this company, I simply think it’s a very convenient and SUPER CLEAN product that is very easy to take.
Ingredients: retinyl palmitate (Vitamin A), cholecalciferol (Vitamin D3), and MK-4 menaquinone (Vitamin K2), MCT (coconut oil)
Other Ingredients: None
One serving provides 5,000 i.u. vitamin A, 1500 i.u. vitamin D and 2 mg. vitamin K2 as Mk4.
I try to purchase when it goes on sale for extra savings.
Thank you very much, I see much information about MK-7 but not much about vitamin A in my studies. We will try to get the vitamin “A” in as well. I am wanting to have MK-7 in the mix as well based about my research. I will look into it but right now we are using Jarrow K-right. Daniel
There is no specific proportion of vitamins D3 and K2. Below a healthy age 40 we generally make enough K2 from vitamin K1 to have an adequate supply. Above the age of 40, production of MK4 vitamin K2 drops off gradually resulting in lowered calcium metabolism where bonevloss occurs and artery calcification starts. Giving vitamin K2 to young people is not likely to show an effect.
So the basis for dosing vitamin K2 would be in proportion to the symptoms of low vitamin K2. 1 or 2 mg will do a lot over time for healthy people. A 5 to 15 mg dose would be good for those with more serious health problems. If the patient is in immediate danger from bone loss or artery calcification, the most effective dose used in research was 15 mg with each meal containing some fat for a total of 45 mg a day.
David,
Would you happen to have a link for that research with that 45 mg of MK4 Per day?
Thank you!
‘Michael
Hi David,
“So the basis for dosing vitamin K2 would be in proportion to the symptoms of low vitamin K2. ”
AFAIK the symptoms of Vit K2 deficiency are osteoporosis, soft tissue calcification and kidney stones. All requiring scans to determine. How do you know how much K2 is required to reverse these? Were you getting repeated scans and adjusting based on the results?
Similarly, in another comment you said that you found the optimum amount for you was 10,000IU D3 and
30,000IU of A (seems a lot of A). How did you determine that? Does the form of A make a difference? I can only buy retynil palmitate here.
Lastly, do you have a reference for the study that used 45mg/day K2 for arterial calcification? I know they use 45mg in Japan for osteoporosis but wasn’t aware anyone had treated calcified arteries with it in a formal study.
Re: young people. I would guess from historical and almost lifelong symptoms of acne resolved in recent years by supplementing K2mk4 and Magnesium that I am genetically a poor converter of K1 to K2. I’ve been giving K2mk4 and Mg to my kids and have noticed whiter teeth and resolution of blocked pores on my tween. They may have inherited my poor ability to convert K1 to K2.
Basically, the only supplements I take are a replacement for eating liver, which I can’t abide (pity).
BTW regarding osteoporosis and bone health generally I strongly recommend the late Robert Heaney’s articles at
http://blogs.creighton.edu/heaney/
If you are not familiar with Dr Heaney he was the initiator of the long-running Omaha Nuns Study into osteoporosis and a leading authority on bone health, calcium metabolism and Vitamin C. This obituary outlines his achievements
https://academic.oup.com/jn/article/147/5/720/4584763
If I can summarise Heaney’s articles on correcting osteoporosis you need:
– adequate calcium in your diet
– adequate Vitamin D to absorb that calcium
– adequate protein to rebuild bone (bone is 50% protein and only 20% calcium)
– phosphorus since the calcium in bone is calcium phosphate. Hence the best source of Ca is dairy which already contains the calcium phosphate.
– Vit K2 to direct the calcium to your bones.
He points out that calcium is so essential to your body that it is tightly regulated and if your calcium intake today is inadequate then your body will tear down some of your bone today to get that calcium, but in the process also destroys the protein matrix. In order to rebuild that bone in osteoporosis patients you need more than 150% of the RDA of 0.8grams of protein per Kg of body weight. (So much for the RDA!)
The way that the body increases that bone teardown is through the release of parathyroid hormone (PTH). To quote Heaney:
“The concentration of PTH circulating in our blood stream is, thus, a reflection of how close our serum calcium level is to the set point, or how hard the body has to work to keep it there. When calcium intakes are low (either because the food contains little calcium or because, with vitamin D deficiency, we’re not absorbing efficiently), PTH levels will typically be elevated. And, accordingly, when absorbed calcium intakes rise, PTH levels fall, until they reach some minimum value below which they drop no further, no matter how much additional calcium we may consume. Other things being equal, a low PTH level is an indication of calcium adequacy.” Conversely high PTH implies either low VitD, low dietary calcium or both together. Heaney then goes on to show that PTH flattens out at a serum Vit D level of 125nmol/L or 50ng/ml, although with a degree of individual variation.
I mention this because when my mother’s blood test showed high PTH her GP suggested referring her to a surgeon to get her parathyroid gland removed! No mention of calcium or Vit D status. It appears that modern medicine’s motto is “when in doubt, cut it out!” Sheesh.
EXCELLENT post Stuart!!! I agree 100% and think everyone should have their PTH tested.
Thanks so much!
Tell your mom to back up forty years and eat properly. Every day should include liver, fresh greens, strong flavored fermented foods such as kefir, buttermilk, labneh, brie, feta, Swiss, Limburger, saurkraut, natto, miso, tempeh, kunjukjian, ambrosia, pickled fish, liverwurst, salami, molasses, pate, reheated leftover vegetables, hummus, kimche, pickled beets, pickled cucumbers, salsa,….
KGB, those foods would KILL anyone with histamine intolerance. Please educate yourself before posting such ignorance.
I highly recommend vK2, which contains pharmaceutical grade MK-4 (5mg , 100% trans form) AND MK-7 (100 mcg, 70% trans form)
isent emu oil the best absorbable and bio avaialble vitamin k2 ?
Wondering what is the optimum amount of Vitamin D3 to take with 200 mcg of Vitamin K2MK7? I am on a ketogenic/keto-carnivore WOE. I live in Saskatoon, SK, Canada and am a red-headed, 62 year old woman. I have heard that red-heads make their own Vitamin D but not sure what kind. Am taking 200 K2MK7 with 1000 mcg Vitamin D3, presently.
Personally, I would stay away from D supplements.
Hi Chris,
Love your work. My own experience with K2 has been an interesting one. I’ve been using it for 3 years after stumbling into both your information online and Dr Kate Rheueme-Bleaue’s book. It coincided with when I first started eating low carb, healthy fat. At first I noticed improvement in my nails when consuming significantly more grass fed butter and that’s when the whole K2 a-ha moment occurred.
I’ve experimented with both K2 MK4 and MK7 and found the effects of using mk4 far superior, measurably so. I think it lines up well from a evolutionary standpoint and is probably why mk4 is used up so quickly by the body.
I would also bet money on me being a super-lousy genetic converter of K1 to K2.
Benefits of mk4 vs mk7:
No dental calcification – the stuff literally chips away once I change to mk4.
Significantly improved skin – back and facial acne disappears.
As long as I take K2 *with* daily Magnesium, my 40+ yr nail biting habit literally stops. I’ve tested this a number of times, if I stop taking either K2 (either mk7 or mk4 do the job) or Mg, the urge to nibble my nails creeps in over about a 10-14 days. Once I resume taking both supplements, the urge to chew goes after about 2-4 days.
The only supplements I take daily are:
K2(mk4)/D3 Thorne drops (5-10 drops twice a day)
Magnesium citrate (100mg)
Vitamin A (5000iu)
I probably won’t bother with K2 mk7 supplements anymore as I eat plenty of the relevant cheeses and/or sauerkraut, and I’m convinced they’re less important than mk4 anyway….
If only I enjoyed eating liver, I could drop the supplements altogether 😆
Oh, I forgot to add…
I’ve been giving my kids the same K2 as me for the past 3yrs so : 6-9mths of mk4, then a switch to mk7 for about 18mths and now a recent switch back to mk4.
They’re teeth are measurably whiter when taking mk4 compared to the mk7 (which made zero difference). Takes about a month to see difference.
My 8yo son recently had to see a maxillo-facial surgeon regarding an underbite, and we’re going to leave it a year and have another look in 12mths time. I’m very interested (and hopeful) that switching back recently to K2mk4 will contribute to an improvement (although we’ll never know for sure if it was the K2 that made the difference or just normal growth correction – fingers crossed, I’ve heard of adults online claiming improvements of jaw structure using K2… we’ll see…).
Regarding underbite and jaw structure, look up an Orofacial Myofunctional Therapist in your area. Exercises are very effective at correcting jaw structure in young children!
The fact that other than a few specific naturally occurring foods have high levels of K2 leads me to believe that an assumption that 100mcg a day is needed or 200mcg is not based in reality. The reality is that it seems you would be lucky to be able to get more than 50mcg a day without actively trying to consume multiple foods on this list, which I am sure people historically did not have access to all of these foods at any given moment like we do today. If you get to page 12 you see that the levels in foods vary widely. Given that Weston Price had such great results when adding in small amounts of butter oil and the levels vary widely from one butter to the next leads me to believe only small amounts of vitamin K2 are needed.
Sir,
Humans evolved over more than a million years. During that period the bulk foods were fresh vegetables. High K2 bacillus subtilis are swimmers moving up plants toward oxygen during rain. Green leaves and fresh vegetables are high in Vitamin Kf2.
In addition the primitive food over a million years was a community porridge recooked day by day. Bacillus subtilis are heat resistant spore former not toxic and they produce plentiful Vitamin K2 during cool porridge periods.
Lance Armstrong reports that high intake of K2 causes the fingers to tingle. He should know. He had an aerobic bicycle lab in his home. He titrated his bicycle aerobic performance versus intake of multiple supplements by sending out blood samples for analysis. He won 5 Tour de France races.
Independent physiological athletic research comparing bicycle teams with and without 300 micrograms per day of K2 showed 6% improvement of aerobic performance on this low dose of K2.
I take enough K2/day to achieve tingling in my fingers. I grow my own Bacillus subtilis and blend it into a liver/Limburger cheese pate. I dare say I get more than 1 mg/day. I cannot afford outside analysis like Lance Armstrong.
I suggest to you that OVER 1 mg/day of K2 was the norm over a million years of human evolution.
K2 might have played a role in Armstrong’s career but EPO, steroids, etc were the elephants in the room. He’s worthless
Industrial farming helped kill K2 in our diets (here in the USA). I’m sure our natural K2 intake was a lot higher eating grass-fed meats, grass-fed butter instead of factory farmed grain-fed meats/butter. If one had a healthy diet with a combination of grass-fed meats, grass-fed butter, eggs, and the right cheeses before our grain-fed factory farming took over the country, I believe our K2 intake probably rivaled a diet high in say.. Natto consumption like parts of Japan. At the very least, we weren’t deficient in K2 (before factory grain-fed farming).
I read on nutritionfacts dot org that in former times our diet included bugs, dirt and feces, all high K2. We make it in our colons, but it’s too far down to be absorbed. Termites are loaded with K2 and gorillas crack open rotting tree trunks and logs to get at them.
I would suggest;
Vitamin K2 and the Calcium Paradox: How a Little-Known Vitamin Could Save Your Life;
Kate Rhéaume-Bleue, BSc., ND
I am personally on the WFPB &No oil bandwagon…i know and understand a lot of people are on the paleo/carnivore/ alike bandwagons.
I am no fundamentalist, no strict vegan and no preacher. I take several supplements and vitamins.
Anyway as a whole food plant based person consuming little or no oils…. i wonder how to get good absorption of K2….
i understand with meals with saturated fats would be best. So which non-animal -whole -foods might best be consumed to eat with vitamin k2 caps besides avocado? Cause i cannot purchase those here. Please do not suggest oils.Thanks
Hi, Brenda, I am on WFPB also, with no added oils. I add ground flax seeds to my green smoothies for fat-soluble nutrient absorption, if that’s any help.
BTW being whole food, I add natto to my green smoothies as well to get the whole package of K2, plus many other things, enzymes, etc from the natto. I hate natto, but added to the green smoothie it’s ok. Here’s the formula for about 3 days worth smoothies: greens (various, kale, spinach, chard), natto 2 packages, 1/2 tsp baking soda, 3 tbsp. ground flax seeds, few sprigs basil, few sprigs mint. I buy basil and mint in big bags from restaurant supply cheaply. Top with ground nutmeg.
I also take “Koncentrated K” which has all the K types in large daily amounts economically in addition to natto, since it appears K isn’t harmful in typical amounts. The product has 500iu K2 mk7, 25mg K2 mk4, some K1 too. It’s about 45 bucks for 2 mo supply (60 caps).
Bob,
IMO, “Koncentrated K” has way more MK4 and MK7, than is desirable. It also has Vitamin K1, which virtually noone needs to take.
Do you happen know what color the ingredients are? If not yellow, than its not likely to be pharmaceutical grade.
The capsules are pale yellow. The maker/seller is a professional chemist. The dose of 500ui/day is within range of the 360iu/day used in clinical trials by Dr. Shurgers in Netherlands. 360 was the lowest dose that would fully carboxylate the MGP of all subjects. He would’ve used more than 360 but laws over there limited it despite no evidence of toxicity. The maker checked all of it with Shurgers, and himself takes two of the capsules per day. He also tested to affirm that some of the MGP remained un-carboxylated, which he says it essential. Hope that helps.
the CONTENTS OF THE CAPSULES ARE PALE YELLOW, NOT THE CAPSULES THEMSEVLES. sorry.
Thanks bobluhrs for the suggestion ground flaxseed is indeed a good option,very healthy too….
I will look into the k2 source you mentioned. Natto inwould.like to try; but is hard to get hold of here. Should be ordered and all and logistics here are suboptimal.
Sure. I’ve seen online info about how to make natto at home. Just soy beans and a starter bacterium. Once you have some you can make all you want. It was made by accident in Japan when they wrapped their soy beans in straw and buried them, came back and found all this goo around the beans, but ate it anyway, and from there it became a huge fad, nobody remembers why. Half of Japan loves it and the other half thinks they’re daft. Good luck, though your time of depending on luck is over with what you’re doing. So good luck if you need it for something else, I guess… Calcium scores always go up a bit while the body disposes of plaque (80 percent is soft plaque) it throws in some calcium to stabilize the plaque while it melts away. This is from Dr. Wm Castelli of Framingham Study, as reported by Esselstyn. Enjoy your miracle.
thanks for your response
How would you compare their shade of yellow to the one on the link below?
not to beat a dead horse, but
my point being that the more pale the yellow is, the more likely it is less potent.
It may not be valid to compare a photo to an “in person” view but regardless how do they compare?
I looked at their website but didn’t find any pictures of their capsules to compare the yellow color. Mine is pale yellow about straw colored. I know the maker, spoke on the phone with him, he started with the calcium score and that’s why he created the product, to save his own skin. He’s industry veteran chemist seeking to provide a product that covers all the K bases below the cost of the others. I doubt he’s a cheat at all, nor that the other one is, either. I also take natto, and another brand of MK-7 at 100 iu/day from ‘nattopharma’ named menaq 7. I’m sure all these sources can criticize the others to where you’d buy from them, that’s just marketing reality. So I use a few sources, since I think K2 is a good vitamin to supplement, just a vitamin, however, and won’t fix plaque much at all on the US diet. The body will override any attempt to remove calcium it has placed there to stabilize plaque, unless the plaque itself is removed, then the body will throw more calcium at the soft, degenerate plaque till it’s gone. THEN and only then might the vitamin come in handy to normalize the calcium. Maybe. It’s just my thinking, certainly not an expert.
With that amount of K2, is it a problem with how much Vit D I take? I only take 2000 IU a day.
As I understand it, and have read about it, vitamin D tends to increase body’s production of MGP and osteocalcin, among other things. K2 then reacts with these to improve osteoporosis and retard calcification of soft tissues. 2000 is plenty of vitamin D according to some, and not enough, to others. Dr. Fuhrman recommends 2000, the D association, 5000. Another guy, Dr. Eric berg says he clears calcium from people using 10000, plus 400 of K2 MK7 for a few months time, then lowers the dose of both, I forget the details. He’s not one of my favorite sources, sort of messes around without documentation or discipline, but he hasn’t killed anyone I know about.
I strongly disagree with bobluhrs.
If one isn’t getting enough calcium in the diet, it is pulled from the bones, creating calcification/bone spurs. Yes, calcification may happen from not enough vitamin D and or possibly K2, but K2 may lower blood calcium levels as Chris has noted above, something one DOES NOT want if they’re deficient.
Off topic, but Furhman is a joke IMO, and Berg not much better. I’d like to see his published studies showing those kinds of results.
I am not worried about calcium deficiency, don’t think many actually are unless their diets aren’t sufficient. I eat plant-based and get plenty of both calcium and potassium and no animal protein to create metabolic acidosis and rob bones of calcium. I don’t have low calcium in blood. If K2 lowers it, maybe because it steers it from the blood into bones and teeth where it belongs, and the person needs more of it. Off topic, I don’t think Fuhrman’s a joke at all as a doctor, his patients appear to be doing quite well, especially when you consider where they started out, though Berg I can agree on. Fuhrman’s a hypothesis generating type of researcher not a proof type, he doesn’t conduct studies, only summarizes and conjectures, which is quite common at early stages of discoveries. If it’s not then tested properly you can’t rely totally on it, which is where he’s at currently. I heard there are some studies on his diet underway, not sure how much finished.
The reply button in the thread below is gone so i put my response here.
Anyway Fuhrman is very knowledgeable, no joke at all. One of THE smartest doctors out there, so do not insult him.
In fact many normal doctors ARE a total joke, ( i work in a hospital , traditional doctors know next to nothing of nutrition, they will advice cow milk and cheese for bones like most nutritionist so they have like traditional orthodox views you might say)
but Fuhrman is far from it.
He and Esselstyn, Klaper, Greger, Mc Dougall, Pritikin and a few others deserve a medal. They belong to the tiny group of doctors which are not money or ‘incentive’ driven…. There is no money to be made from good advice and good foods.
They managed to reverse lots of cardiovascular dieseases, no statins or other drugs ever managed that. Pritikin himself has a very special story, sad ending, but very very special and fascinating.
I think the paradox is THE most unhealthy foods, also contain a tiny little K2. Loads of saturated fat and a tiny speck of K2 to counter it? That just won’t cut it today.
Some time ago i got really interested in dr Joe Prendergast, he treated people with massive doses of Vit D. Of course people will say he is a joke too, they always do and will do with people who are out of the mainstream. You might want to try telling your family doctor you take K2, he or she will not even know what K2 is or does in 97% of cases nor know anything about dosage etc. Anyway, Prendergast was or is a endocrinologist and had lots of success with treating diabetics. I guess i got into him because of Bobluhrs here LoL .Anyway all you meat- chease- dairy eating keto believers might want to look into him too.
Very special indeed.
Don’t believe me, just find out for your self, same with Pritikin. Mc Dougall and Klaper, very special and fascinating stories that share 1 common trait: they often had major health issues themselves in youth.
bobluhrs, you might want to read up more on calcium. It doesn’t just belong in the bones and teeth — your muscles need it to contract AND relax. Not enough calcium and you get tetany, and extreme contraction of the muscles.
Brenda, I doubt I’ll convince you of anything, but humans are omnivores, not herbivores. That’s a fact.
Now certainly if one eats too much muscle meat then that can create acidosis, where minerals are pulled from the bones to try to correct that.
But we NEED dietary cholesterol. If you don’t believe me, ask Chris. Studies have shown that a cholesterol level below 175 greatly increases the risk for depression and anxiety. And the fact that one does not get that from a vegan diet probably explains why McDougall has become so unhinged.
Don’t believe me, then check out a video on youtube, entitled “An Explosive Interview with Vegan Expert Dr. John McDougall”. The man snaps at almost every question and is clearly unable to settle down.
As for Furhman, a friend of mine who is very ill with ME/CFS has gone downhill markedly since starting Furhman’s restrictive diet 6 years ago.
We’re not herbivores.
Well said. My wife and I followed Furhman’s program for two years. Mainly looking for a solution for my wife’s isolated systolic hypertention. My wife was even seen by Dr. Fuhrman at his office for the cost of $500. We thought he would give her a personal protocol something designed more for her but he never ordered any blood tests or other tests and he had nothing to say that wasn’t already in his books even though her systolic blood pressure was 205 while in his office. Sorry but I don’t consider that to be a great doctor. Waste of money and waste of time. She has found a solution since then and for the past two years her blood pressure has been normal after following Morley Robbins Root Cause Protocol.
I agree we’re not herbivores, not carnivores, either. We’re frugivores (fruit, root, veggie). Our jaws move sideways, while true omnivores like dogs and bears only move up and down. The fact we ate so much variety is likely due to our wide ranging travel and migration; we’re everywhere. But for the longest time we were like the chimps, our closest relative in what we ate, 23 million years, not 2.5 paleo period. Not much changed over the 23. Our gut is 9 times body length, while omnivores is 3. You can’t give a dog heart disease with fatty meat, but a series of chimps fed like that died in under a year from it. We last longer, but are not proof against it.
Off-topic, I don’t do all of what Fuhrman says, just the nutrient attentiveness. His diet, to me, restricts calories too much for the sake of micronutrient load maximization. I think that’s good for about 6 months, after which the body’s probably saturated and has shed the extra pounds. Now what? At that point, compensation has been reached for nutrients, so now you need to work out how you’ll get your calories, macronutrient load.
Take my case, a bad calcium score for motivation 579 three years ago. My doc offered a cardiologist, I asked for 6 weeks. Did Dr. Esselstyn’s diet with an eye to Fuhrman’s micronutrient rating scale (ANDI), used by Whole Foods. Esselstyn’s video on youtube “Treating the Cause…” will explain why his diet and the success rates in human trials over many years. I’m not saying this is for everyone, it was the best track record against what I’ve got. If I become a McDougal, just shoot me. He needs a good hot meal ala grandma. I think compensation to correct dietary problems then readjusting things for a good balance makes the most sense. I think the mind will clear up and some people may find themselves pissing others off, so they should watch out not to be upsetting. I have found my depression/anxiety has improved over the 3 years, but not assuming that’s going on forever, it could be compensation effects. I always try to self-examine and revue. In order to get my stuff right, I use the nitric oxide remedies of Prendergast, Rainer Boger, and research of Dr. Robert Vogel, U of Md on FMD (flow mediated dilatation) saying which foods restrict and which promote it. That way, if I need something not on my Esselstyn diet, I can take some of that technology with the meal to guard against the effects. I believe some animal product on a very irregular basis might offer benefits, however, as a steady diet (something nature never anticipated) it seems to encourage bad bacteria that produce TMA, which the liver oxidizes to TMA0, which directly causes coronary artery disease. It takes about 2 weeks for the bacteria to become established, as tested on vegans who were given steak every day for 2 weeks (anything in the name of science). I’m not vegan, but get splashed a bit by the similarities. Anyway, my fight is deadly and highly motivating that much is for sure, and so is that of lots of others.
Prendergast is interesting in that he used a blend of arginine and citrulline, but not much citrulline, that was wrong. Rainer Boger (dir of pharmacology U of Hamburg) found by experiment that a ratio by weight of 2 arg: 1 cit resulted in the largest rise in blood levels of arginine. But even with Prendergast’s inferior formula, which resulted in his patients taking a big dose, about 4 times what’s needed if the 2:1 ratio is used, he still got 20 years with 7000 patients, 80 percent with diabetes, having NO admissions, means no heart problems. That is unheard of. To dismiss that would be insane, I’m using it. My blood pressure is usually 110/70, and some of that probably comes from the arg/cit mixture I make for myself. It will take a combination of things to roll back what I did the first 70 years at the table, if it can be done at all.
@NevadaSmith, i am really sorry to hear that. It was not what i expected.So thanks for the info.
i am happy the Morley Robbins advices worked out for her high blood pressure. I know a lot of diets do not work for everybody. I agree on a lot with Fuhrman and colleagues cause i see a lot of lifestyle related cancers and diseases- the big lines-, but then again it obviously does not work for each and every person. I agree with the big lines, not with all. For instance being dutch i have a hard time leaving out butter like now, if the cows are outside eating fresh grass it must contain K2 and lots of other goodies. So much religion and dogmas, maybe in 20- 50 years food will be highly customized to individual patterns/ genes. Thats what i expect, but i am not sure. I also recognize that in a lot of more neurological issues the ‘good’ fatty acids are really important, and those tend to be pretty low on certain diets, especially on WFPB diets. Anyway i have a hard time connecting Weston A Price ( the man himself not the modern adepts of it with lots and lots of meat and fat, ) and people like Fuhrman, I know they both are right on a lot- in their own right-. Anyway fat soluble vitamins are important, thats why we are on this page.
Who knows the role of pollution, plastics, hormone disruptors, obesogens and thousands of other chemicals we are exposed to daily?
Fact is almost all those substances are fat soluble. I sometimes wonder if that might be part of the puzzle explaining why WFPB and no oil brings down so much diseases( but not all). The more up the food chain, the more pollution,
I will look into Morley robbins, i know too little of him.
hi , what about California Gold and Solgar ?
Hi
I love your podcasts and vitamin emails; thank you so much for your devotion to helping others. Question, I am presently taking a Vitamin K2, (Relentless Improvement). It has 15,000 mcg of MK-4 (12.500%), and 60 mcg of MK-7(50%). 1 serving size. In your email and on your website under Vitamin K, you mention taking 100- 200 mcg. You mention on your website if I don’t get K from enough foods you recommend getting closer to 200 mcg. I have osteoporosis, and kidney stones. ( Not kidney disease) and probably need the 200 mcgs. I am not on any other medications, & my bones have remained stable for 1 year since my last bone density test. My bottle says “15,000 mcgs of MK-4), which is very different from the 200 mcgs you are recommending. I thought it was strange so I wanted to ask should I stop taking this vitamin? Or am I not reading the numbers correctly. Please I would appreciate your advise. Thank you so much.
I’d like to let you new about a new vitamin K2 product (vK2). It contains pharmaceutical grade MK4 (5mg) + MK7 (100mcg).
If the brand of Vitamin K2 you take is NOT yellow, then its not pharmaceutical grade and probably contains Chinese ingredients.
Do you believe Relentless label claims? for their price, i think it is very doubtful
The capsule is yellow in color. There are so many vitamin companies not sure what to believe. However, I do trust Dr. Masterjohn and his responses as I have been watching and learning and researching for some time. I was concerned with how much is okay to take and it seems like 15,000 mcg of MK-4 is much higher than Dr. Masterjohn would recommend. Just want to make sure I am not hurting myself in some way. I liked the product because it has clean fillers. But would buy elsewhere if these are too high in dose.
What is the make of this new brand Eric? if it is ‘vk2’ then it is a poor choice…nobody will be able to find it online…
Also how come the pharmaceutical grades are (always?) yellow
Yes, Brenda the Product name is vK2, which can be found on Amazon by searching for vK2. It is distributed by NHS Global Distributors (http://www.nhs-global.com)
The MK-4 we use is pharmaceutical grade, meaning pure (The assay specification is 98% – 102% with the current lot test value = 100.6% by HPLC ) and the MK-7 is in a 1% potency (with 99% Microcrystalline Cellulose)
The pharmaceutical raw materials, must be cold stored (turns into liquid if over 100.2 f) They are not only expensive, but must also be shipped to our lab in a cold shipping engine, which adds an additional expense.
The raw materials are VERY yellow, but are not stable until “cut” with microcrystalline cellulose, which results in a temperature stable yellow (but more pale yellow than the uncut raw material)
The less pure (or more cut) the material, the less yellow it is
Hi Eric,
I do like the product you recommended, looks promising and the reason for it as described on your website I am familiar with. VK-2. My dr has me on 2000 IU of Vitamin D3, not 5000. And she is not ready to increase my dosage. So with this in mind; your K would be too high of a dose for me. I really appreciated your insight and info on this vitamin K; but need to find one that fits my regime with the amount of vitamin D I take. Still looking for a better Vit K2- with MK-7.
Hi Janet,
Your doctor is ignorant of vitamin D3 requirements. She is a trained ambulance chaser not a health practitioner or nutritionist. 5,000 IU Vitamin D3 along with 300 micrograms K2 and 5,000 IU natural vitamin A is necessary for prevention of a host of age related diseases. Among these are arthritis, osteoporosis, Alzheimer’s, periodontal disease, atherosclerosis, stenosis, cancer, bone spurs, dementia…. Medical schools do not teach health and nutrition. Medical students are taught that they pop out of the box knowing everything there is to know. They do not read for improvements in the state of the art. They never learn. My advice is to find a conscientious nutritionist or Nurse Medical Practitioner to guide you. You can also read the literature and YouTube for expert science behind the combination of Vitamins K2, A, D3. Doctor Chris Masterjohn is an excellent resource.
Hi Janet, Sorry for my delay in responding, i did see your comment till just now.
I’m not sure why your doctor is recommending such a low dose of vitamin D3, but regardless, there is no harm in taking more vitamin K2
Hi! Thank you for this awesome resource! I’m wondering what your thoughts are on the Just Thrive K2 supplement. Consider adding it to the review above? Thank you!
Does nattokinese contain k2, as natto does?
My 15 year old daughter has been diagnosed with pcos I don’t want her to be in the birth control pills all her life she is not fat and her sugar levels are normal. I would like to know more about vitamin K2 and how this vitamin can help with the pcos. I think this condition or syndrome has been for many many decades and very little to nothing has been done to help or cure it.
I had a Calcium scan done and got a score of 46. So I started taking 320mcg of Vitamin K2-7 a day because I read it will help reduce the calcium build up in your blood vessels. I have been taking them for a month and in the last week my stool has gone from dark to blond color or very light beige if you will. Is the K2-7 causing this color change and should I been concerned?
Are you also taking Vitamin D3? I hope Dr. Masterjohn will answer you as he is more knowledgeable.
Curious about a comment in the content of this article that suggested MK-4 might be best for distribution…or lack thereof…in soft tissues. Would that indicate MK-4 could be of more benefit for arterial health (preventing calcium/plaque buildup) than MK-7?
More research needs to be done in this area, but my money is on mk4 as that is the animal-sourced component and makes more sense evolutionarily to me. I’ve experimented with mk4 and mk7 over the last 3 yrs and I have visibly better results with mk4 (teeth and skin). I have been very consistent with my intake.
Doesn’t it make just as much sense whether you are looking at it from an evolutionary standpoint or not?
I am taking CV meds. Metoprolol,Losartan, Clopidogrel and Atorvastatin. Is it ok to take k2 and what do you think a safe dose would be? I would also like to take coq10, any thoughts on that? Thank you, Chris jensen
The blog is really appreciable and inspiring. Helped me a lot. Hope same sort of blogs in future too.
https://goo.gl/XZYCpS
Greetings, do you have commentary on, or could you comment on the relationship of K2 to any decrease in calcium in the brain? Previous to K2 supplementation along with increased consumption of olive oil and the probiotic bifidobacterium infantis, (a microbe known for producing seretonin) my 77 yr old mother was experiencing full on episodes of Alzheimer’s-like agitation and disordered thinking, ( logic-splices, child-like Behavior,etc) approximately every third day on average over the course of 2 months. After beginning her supplementation of the above mentioned items she has experienced only 1 episode as described above in the two months following this new protocol, and that one episode occurred within the first two weeks of beginning the protocol. I’m happy to add that mom is back to laughing at jokes again. Btw, She takes meds only for thyroid and blood pressure.
Craving more knowledge here, thank you for your informative and very helpful website.
Jamie
Hi Jamie, like yourself I would like to know more. Interesting about bifidobacterium infantis. I am hypothyroid and take calcium supplements and have wondered about the effect on the brain as well.
Maggie
Very interesting article. Do you have any thoughts on the Relentless Improvement MK4 and MK7 that is derived from orange jasmine blossom?
I’d like to let you new about a new vitamin K2 product (vK2). It contains pharmaceutical grade MK4 (5mg) + MK7 (100mcg).
If the brand of Vitamin K2 you take is NOT yellow, then its not pharmaceutical grade and probably contains Chinese ingredients.
Do you believe Relentless label claims? for their price, i think it is very doubtful
The capsule is yellow in color. There are so many vitamin companies not sure what to believe. I do trust Dr. Masterjohn and his response. I was concerned with how much is okay to take and it seems like 15,000 mcg of MK-4 is much higher than Dr. Masterjohn would recommend.
vk2 has 5mg of MK4 and 100mcg of MK7
i just dont see how its possible to sell what Relentless alleges to contain for their price
Great read. My mom has high levels of aortic and mitral valve calcification as well as arterial. It is symptomatic now, and I have her on 150 micrograms of MK-7 but wondering if we can help her better with a full spectrum product. We only have a few months to test this, since doctors want to operate and she doesn’t want that. What is your opinion on fastest way to remove the calcification? Thanks so much for your response.
Might be a good resource:
https://www.cureality.com/library/booklets/Track%20Your%20Plaque%20Program%20Guide.pdf
Thank you very much !
A better source for all types of supplementation is Chris’ friend Kamal Patel’s Examine.com.
Here’s a quote:
“Although K1 is directly active in your system, your body can also convert it to MK-4.”
https://examine.com/nutrition/supplementing-vitamin-k/
Thank you for a very informative explanation of vitamin K2.
I gather from reading this information that it is better to make use of BOTH
MK4 and MK7. I use the Thorne Research MK4 ( 1 drop = 1mg) and take 1 drop
three times a day. Am I taking too much?
Would it be beneficial for me to also take 200mcg of MK7 as
well. I am 69 years old (female) and have osteoporosis. My daily calcium intake
is 1200mg.
Thanks ……….
Thanks so very much for the great informative information. What I really really want to know is which K2 supplement you take!
Is there any research on transdermal absorption of K2?
I have been squeezing the contents of gel capsules containing mostly K1 and k2 at a rate of about 300 – 400 mcg per day (half k1 and half k2( mostly MK-4 with less than 15 mcg of MK-7) and applying to wrists, knees and soles of feet on alternate days. I don’t know how this converts to international units, or how much is absorbed into my system, nor whether this is a good proportion to keep calcium moving into my bones and not in my arteries. The water in my area is very high in calcium and low in magnesium.
Since each capsule contains over 2000 mcg of combined K, I wished to reduce the amount taken at one time to a reasonable level.
I have to take K1 to balance the Warfarin I take for a heart valve. I run 2.5 INR b y adjusting my eating of greens. I’ve learned to cheat by eating spinach for two days prior to a test. I could find nothing on K2 impact on INR.
I knew that K1 is water soluble and only in your body for 8 to 12 hours before getting peed out or sweated out. I reasoned that left 12 to 16 hours without K1. K2 is oil based (and ferment & meat). This stays in the body for 3 to 5 days. This left the issue of interference with the Warfarin.
So I tested it. I kept the K1 level while consuming a lot of K2-M7. The results are that there is NO impact on the INR or Warfarin. I now take K2 every other day, figuring that each cap is active for 3 days.it’s been working fine for 6 months. I’ve tried as much as 5x everyday without any effect of the INR.
So only leafy green veggies effect the K! and INR. A heavy dose of K!1 Is gone in half a day with half of the Warfarin untreated. Therefore the Leafy greens should be eaten at least twice a day. This is while the K2 can be effective for 3-4 days. The general suggested dose of K2 is 2 caps a day. This results of 8 cap active in the body unless spaced out. It will also activate any beans eaten, with pronounced fermentation.
I am on warfarin because after a spinal cord injury 6.5 years ago I have quadriplegia and now have a propensity for blood clots. I recently started supplementing vitamin K2 mk7 ( doctors best MenaQ7) at 200 µg per day and my INR dropped and I had to raise my warfarin level about 15%. I am planning to add in MK4 to see what effects it has.
I take NATURE PLUS Vitamin K2. It has MK-7 only. Do you recommend both MK7 and MK4. Are is this supplement a good supply of Vitamin K2 without having to take a MK-4?
getting intoxicated from eating liver every day ?
which liver beef or chicken or else ?
guess wasn’t grass fed liver was it ”
how did you trace the toxicity direct exclusive to the liver eating ?
Chris, outstanding work! As a lifelong student of nutrition and wellness I realize I have learned nothing about the importance of Vitamin K2, until now. Thank you, this has opened up entirely new avenues of thought.
Thanks Mark!
Hello, Dr. Masterjohn,
I recently gave birth to my first child (I’m 25). He has a bad overbite, which has really surprised me given my consumption of vitamin K2. I’ve been eating two eggs a day basically all my life and drinking raw milk for a few years. During the pregnancy around 4-5 months I began eating four eggs a day, beef liver once a week, and a liter of raw milk daily. Before even getting pregnant I had started 200 mcg of vitamin K2 MK7. I’d also been taking 5000 mcg of vitamin A because of a vitamin D-induced deficiency as it seemed to me. In the end I think I overdid the vitamin A… my skin has reacted strangely.
I’m wondering how this could have happened? Could excess vitamin A have interfered? Was it more likely a problem of fat malabsorption? Could the supplement I took be a scam? Here is the link: https://www.sunday.fr/vitamine-k2-mk7/vitamine-k2-mk7-goutte-100mcg-100-pourcent-all-trans-vegan.html
I really appreciate any help. I wonder if there is a way to develop his jaw better from here. Should I try increasing the drops to 400 mcg? Thank you.
I’m not sure what causes overbite, sorry.
Hi Casey,
I hope you don’t mind my thoughts on this.
It’s quite normal for a baby to have a slightly retruded mandible. As they develop, the mandible should grow in a forward and upward direction – so it usually corrects itself if conditions are right for it to do so. Of course, there’s always a chance that it’s currently outside what is considered normal – you’d need someone to look at it and give a diagnosis.
There are multiple factors that influence facial and jaw development. Including: the action of breastfeeding, breathing and nutrition.
The position and actions of muscles and positioning of the tongue have a huge impact on jaw and tooth position. Breastfeeding encourages the proper function of these structures.
A recessed mandible can be influenced by mouth breathing. As a general rule, all of us should be breathing through the nose with a pair of sealed lips, including babies. (Unless you have a cold!) If a baby is mouth breathing then this should be investigated and corrected.
Nutrition sets up the baby to perform these things (above) in the best way possible.
May I recommend that you check out Dr Steven Lins website. He’s a dentist with an interest in nutrition and development and his website is a fantastic resource. I often refer my patients to check out his info.
Cheers.
Teresa,
Thanks for your reply. I did read on a site about breastfeeding that most babies have an underbite. That’s interesting yet strange. I hope my baby’s bad latch, which I need to get taken care of, isn’t affecting his development.
I agree about mouth breathing. He has his mouth open often but I don’t think he’s actually breathing through it.
Hi there,
A bad latch can often be caused by cranial and cervical dysfunction. I’ve treated a number of babies over the years who had latching difficulties and they were easily resolved With a little bit of cranial work. My infant cranial teacher is Carol Gray and she lives in Portland Oregon her website http://www.carolgray.com has a list of practitioners that she has trained.
My buddy Michael Hahn practice is in Seattle and he has treated a ton of babies over the years with all sorts of difficulties like Latching difficulties and torticollis and sleep issues issues and reflux and much more.
It can certainly be worth having your baby evaluated because at this age many things can be fixed really easily.
How does Vitamin K2 work with Proteolytic Enzymes and can they supplement together. How does Vitamin K2 work well with Vitamin D 3?
Hello Chris, Great article! Thank you for writing this.
I have a very limited diet because I have TMJ disorder (arthritis of the jaw joint) and this makes eating and chewing very difficult.
Currently, my only source of Vitamin K1 is organic hemp seeds and organic Barley Grass powder. And my only source of Vitamin K2 is a Multivitamin supplement containing MK-7 (soy-free) and organic grass fed ghee.
I have some dental problems, including slightly bleeding gums and slightly eroded enamel, and slight teeth sensitivity and reduced saliva. Many dentists believe this can be caused by Vitamin K2 deficiency.
I therefore want to buy a new supplement to increase my Vitamin K2 intake.
Which product would you buy if you were me? The Life Extension Super K, or the Innovix Labs Full Spectrum Vitamin K2?
Note: Life Extension have recently changed their formula. Their product now contains 100mcg of MK-7 which is 100% in the trans form. I emailed them and they confirmed it is 100% trans MK-7. You can see the new formulation here:
https://www.lifeextension.com/Vitamins-Supplements/item02034/Super-K-with-Advanced-K2-Complex
I look forward to your reply.
Thank you so much in advance,
Tom White.
Hi Tom,
I hope you don’t mind my 2 cents’. I’m a dental hygienist so your comment caught my eye ☺️
I personally use Thorne Research’s combination D3/K2 supplement. It’s liquid and comes in a dropper bottle which means you can add it easily to a cup of water etc.
I have no comment on if it’s better or worse than any competing brands but my understanding is that Thorne are high quality.
All the best.
Thank you Teresa. I have decided to purchase the Life Extension product.
I was familiar with the Thorne product you mentioned.
Generally speaking, I like to buy individual nutrient supplements so I can monitor my symptoms, health and test result levels, and then “tweak” the dosages as required.
I have previously taken the more expensive Thorne MK-4 without the D3, and noticed some positive improvements.
On this occassion, I have elected to go for the full spectrum Vitamin K product by Life Extension purely because I want to minimise the amount of capsules and tablets I am taking currently, which is at least 10 or 15 different supplements.
If I am dissatisfied with the results from the life extension product after 2 to 4 weeks, I will take a different product.
Thank you again for your comment.
Take care.
Please see my supplement review in this article.
Thanks for your reply. I have read the full supplement review section twice.
However, I would specifically like to know which Vitamin K supplement you would take if you were in my situation, and had to eat a very limited diet due to a jaw joint disorder, chronic facial pain and many food allergies/intolerances. I will be addressing these issues and getting treatment for them, but the treatment will be slow and the recovery journey will be long.
In the meantime, I have purchased the Life Extension Super K product because I get very little Vitamin K1 from my diet (approx 119mcg per day).
I’m currently taking 2 capsules per day of the Life Extension Super K. If I am unhappy with the results in 2 to 3 weeks, I am thinking of buying the Innovix Labs product and take 1 or 2 capsules of the Innovix labs per day, instead of the Life Extension Super K. Would you do the same thing as me? If not, what would you do instead and which Vitamin K supplement would you try next?
Thank you in advance,
Tom White.
brie cheese vs
jarlsberg cheese which has more mk4 k2 vs duck fat ?
The database is down and we’re trying to fix it. When it’s back up you can search the database.
Hi,
I have been on statins for over 20 years ever since my cholesterol was about 200 and my ratio was low . I exercise regularly, eat low-fat, nutritional foods. I did drink alcohol regularly until I quit 5 years ago. I never smoked. I had regular lifeline screenings that never showed any plaque build-up until some minimal build-up recently at the age of 60. I got tested and my calcium score is 800. My grandfather and father both clogged up and my grandfather passed from major heart attack at 60. I have seen 2 cardiologists and they have ran several tests which were all negative and their recommendation is to increase my statins from 10 mg to 40 mg daily. They say that the calcium has repaired and hardened coronary soft plaque deposits which is better than having soft plaque deposits that could break off. Also calcium scores are based on the fact that normal plaque is about 20% calcium and a person that takes statins has a higher percentage of calcium in their plaque which should mean that the calcium score of a statin user is effectively much lower than calculated. I started taking 2 daily doses of 50 ug of mk4.
The bottom line question that cardiologists do not want to entertain is can K2 usage actually soften my coronary hardened plaque deposits and turn them into a dangerous softer consistency and allow them to break off. I believe I have an inherited lipid disorder from my grandfather who probably died from soft plaque rupturing and giving him a heart attack.
Per Dr. Wm Castelli, of Framingham Heart Study, via Dr. Caldwell Esselstyn, of Cleveland Clinic: when the soft plaque begins to break up, the body pitches in some extra calcium to help stabilize it.
I got a score of 579 abt 3 years ago, and took up Dr. Esselstyn’s diet since he’s the only one with 100 percent results if you do his diet his way, not your version of his way. It isn’t easy but it does work. Even my ED has been breaking up and my doc has me on zero meds, he’s onboard since all the test results are better than any drugs he could use. Calcium hasn’t been shown to be a vitamin k2 problem, it may contribute, but just taking big doses of K2 hasn’t seemed to work all by itself. I am using the diet, exercise, Arginine-citrulline in 2:1 ratio about 5gr total twice a day, and nitrate/nitrite orally per the book “The Nitric Oxide Solution” by Dr. Nathan Bryan. There are good reasons for all of these things, I don’t F around, I want human interventional trials that worked on everyone to prevent-reverse heart attack, stroke, and death from heart disease. Period. Esselstyn has it, others don’t. It’s just a bit of a tough diet at first, then it’s not that hard as it seems. The arginine is based on Dr. Joe Prendergast who got great results on his diabetic patients, no admissions in 20 years, over 7000 patients. The nitrate/nitrite solution, well read the book. Good luck to you, keep your standards high about proof, and see these things I’ve mentioned. One more thing, I do take K2 in about 500u/day in MK7, plus 25mg/MK4 and K1 as well in one single pill a day from Koncentrated-K vitamins. It is very cost effective for the dose. Like I say, I doubt by itself it will do Jack, but more of K2 isn’t going to dislodge soft plaque, the body will not let that happen, so long as your diet doesn’t give the body the building blocks of plaque, like it is in your case, most probably. You’d have to see and become convinced of Esselstyn’s diet and the need for it, don’t pay too much heed to doctors telling you “you
‘re fine” etc. Pay attention to Esselstyn, and live. See the video: “Treating the Cause…Esselstyn” on youtube. It is 90 minutes long and tells the whole story. Best of luck. Bob
There are actually three problems here. One is if the plaque is calcified, two is if there is a soft blockage, and three is if the body is repairing the damage faster than it happens.
The calcification of the arteries is regarded by some experts as the most important and accurate indicator of a future heart condition. More calcification means more area of the arteries involved in artery disease. Medical opinions that calcium hardens plaque and makes it safe is a guess that runs counter to the statistics on calcification. The calcification is actually bone tissue growing in the arteries where it should not be.
The calcification can be reversed by adding a few nutrients. The MK4 form of vitamin K2 is specific to making the Matric GLA Proteins work to stop the calcification and reverse its formation. Its also advisable to take 10,000 IU of vitamin D3 daily as this boost the Matrix GLA protein that the MK4 works with. Including 20,000 IU of retinol vitamin A is also advisable as this helps in forming the proteins to do this. While you can try use of MK7 vitamin K2, its not normally present in the body and the body makes its own MK4 for this function when we are young and healthy. This rate of production drops off with age, thus the need for a supplement.
The soft deposits in the arteries are a separate problem. These are reversed by boosting arginine and citruline intake which enables the interior of the artery to protect its thin lining of cells. There is an old reference on how to do this in a book by Dr Louis Ignarro who discovered the function of nitric oxide in the body but newer references should be good. He included items like Alpha Lipoic Acid, CoEnzyme Q10, and natural vitamin E with the gamma form in it. I found that my blockages responded to 4-6 grams of arginine and this was separate from any calcification. I also found that adding the arginine took 25 points off my blood pressure, bringing it back to normal.
Thanks David, very interesting.
How do you know that your blockage was reduced? What tests have you had?
After being unable to get a diagnosis out of my PCP, I looked over everything on cardiac disease and the symptoms available in 2005. I was already taking many of the nutrients known helpful in heart disease. A book by Dr Louis Ignarro, No More Heart Disease suggested adding these and Arginine and Citruline. Within 20-30 minutes of taking 4 grams of arginine there was a measurable reduction in blood pressure. Since arginine is a component of connective tissue, over six months there was a reduction of 25 points in blood pressure to normal, probably due to larger arteries being formed. During this time my training speed in 6.5 mile runs went up by 8%.
One of the medical references had this report of a 2% death rate for patients treated with arginine. These patients were people with prior clotting events and arginine stimulates the immune system making immune generated clotting events more possible in simplistic or careless trials. I’d never had any clotting events so this was safe for me to try. Others have argued that this medical test was not valid due to the form of arginine used.
So no blockage measurements, but increased performance and a complete reduction of blood pressure from 145/80 to 122/70. The arginine also improved a number of minor foot tendon strains in a 53 year old male. I’ve repeatedly found over the years that lowering my arginine intake results in rising blood pressure.
Well done, David. I take arginine-citrulline in 2:1 by weight twice daily about 5gr each dose. Thousands of cases exist for the type of things we are seeing with it. Dr. Joe Prendergast has the proof in his endocrinology practice with diabetics in which their heart disease issues vanished over 20 years, over 7000 of them. Amazing. In my case, I also got a blood test for ADMA done by mail to a lab in Germany. ADMA is an arginine antagonist which competes against it for the enzyme eNOS. By upping blood arginine levels this can be overcome. Not all people have it but if you’re getting a big boost from arginine, it’s 90 percent likely you have high ADMA too. People with low ADMA don’t get as much benefit from arginine as those with high. High ADMA is often a death sentence unless arginine is used properly and continuously. It’s partly a genetic thing, I think. best, Bob
we are still waiting for any good human trials that show K2 reverses coronary calcium. Calcium is only 20 percent of plaque. If diet can remove soft plaque by 20 percent and calcium in the process grows 20 percent, due to the body throwing in some calcium for stability, I think you’re way ahead. No evidence yet shows that arginine-citrulline removes anything, though it may make blood flow better and arteries smoother due to nitric oxide. It may reduce the tendency for new plaque to form, but we don’t see that it will remove anything. Even the rat studies just showed nitrites in the drinking water only prevented, not reversed plaque in rats fed a highly atherogenic, high cholesterol diet.
Diet has shown the ability to reverse plaque, however, see Esselstyn’s photos of angiograms of plaque reversals in his patients. I’m not saying anything is impossible, just that we don’t have real evidence you can reverse plaques of any kind with just supplements while ignoring an atherogenic diet of cholesterol and saturated fat. Removing saturated fat and cholesterol and eating whole plant foods has shown that effect, without supplements, so it makes sense that be the cornerstone of any serious attempt at reversing heart disease, and probably essential to preventing its progress, with or without supplements.
How about individual results for grass fed and non grass fed dairy?
Whatever is in the literature, we put in the database.
In your review of K2 supplements you state, “While the label recommends a daily dose of 45 drops, this is based on studies using pharmacological doses to treat osteoporosis.”
My primary interest is in supplementing with K2 to treat osteoporosis and have read a couple of articles that recommend 45 mg of K2. There appears to be no clinical data on the effectiveness of doses between the 100-200 mcg for general health and the 45,000 mcg for osteoporosis (and no explanation as to why 45 mg is magic). And, although I believe that K1 is more specifically involved in blood clotting, I suspect that there could be some conversion of K2 to K1 which at osteoporosis treatment dose levels might not be negligible.
Chris, thank you for your research and for so generously making it and yourself available.
My question is specific to a supplement that I am considering taking for osteoporosis (as well as general heart/arterial health), rather than succumbing to the doc’s suggestions for injections of a now-popularly-pushed anti-osteoporosis pharmaceutical drug with possibilities of some serious side effects (no thank you!). The supplement I am considering is: 8X Strength Natural Vitamin K2 Formula. Provides 4-in-1 Support with MK-7, MK-4, K1 and D3 with Maximum Absorption for Stronger Bones and Cardiovascular Health 60 Capsules
by One Elevated. My concern is “should I be” 😉 concerned by the divulgence when one reads really thoroughly on Amazon’s descriptions, that it contains “trace amounts of lead”. I have always understood that lead is cumulative, can’t easily be chelated. The flip side of this is that there certainly is lead in our natural environment. Is it your opinion that one should be concerned by supplements that disclose “trace amounts” of lead, or, are they simply doing due diligence whereas, perhaps, other companies might not be so forthcoming in their disclosures and have “trace amounts of lead”, as well?
Thank you for your response.
Best regards — Suzanne-Marie
This might be related to California’s laws? I once went to a restaurant in a nice hotel in California where there was a sign saying “Warning: This restaurant uses ingredients known to the state of California to cause cancer.” I’d ask the company about it and see what it compares to for things you consume every day.
Thanks, Chris. That was my conjecture. I appreciate your suggestion; I’ll call company if I feel I need more info; thinking not! I’m “fine enough”, I’m sure.
good start: https://www.cinnamonvogue.com/Types_of_Cinnamon_1.html
Suggest you make sure you are ingesting Ceylon Cinnamon. Your liver will thank you and it may not be an issue with anticoagulants.
I am seeing sublingual K2 suplements . I like the idea, as I have absorption issues due to partial gastrectomy. I need to take K2 as part of my fight against osteoporosis. What is your opinion on getting proper absorption of K2 with a chewable, and/or sublingual supplement?
I haven’t studied, it, sorry. I will have to look into it.
Yesterday I saw a You Tube video [in French with English subtitles] that was a testimonial of a gentleman who had leukemia and was given months to live. Long story short, he began eating natto among other things and his leukemia eventually went away.
I’m wondering how much and how often eating natto would be suggested? He also too D3 which is something I would not do. Studiesseem to show that retinol would be just as effective along with magnesium which is required for the body to make its own D3. I take Rosita Extra Virgin cod liver oil which provides retinol and natural D. Seems to me natto is the best source for K2 as it also provides needed minerals.
Did I miss any mention of the powerful anticoagulant effects of Natto as in Nattokinase?
Hi Chris,
You said that your Thorne K2 drops last you three years; I have a bottle of the Thorne D & K2 drops that only had about a year shelf life. Is it safe to take after it’s expired?
Yeah I’m not sure. I’d ask the company. Next update I’ll revise the text to reflect the expiration date.
I’ve been taking D3, K2, zinc, boron and magnesium for one year. A year ago a Mayo Clinic surgeon said my CT showed the second most wide spread inflammation he’d have ever seen. My recent CT shows no inflammation. I use K-vitamins.com . I believe their K supplements give the best bang for the buck. It cost more but you get 25 times more K2-mk4 than the others. Can I have permission to copy your prints.
The supplement you mention being sold at http://www.k-vitamins.com only contains 1/2 milligram of MK-7. I dont see how that could help anybody who is trying to reap the Vit K2 benefit. It does have 25mg of MK-4.. maybe Im missing something here.
500 mcg is a lot. Read the section on how much we need.
Hi James.
What kind of inflammation are you talking about?
I don’t know what you mean by copy my prints. You mean print the article and distribute it? In what context, to whom, in what quantity, and how will you credit me?
Why do you think the rat and mouse research are 1:1 applicable to humans?
There is a lot of animal research where they found effect in animals, and in humans the same substance didn’t do anything.
I certainly don’t trust extrapolating Rodent research to humans; from what I’ve read, it’s used mainly for studying safety, toxicity, etc.
They are not reliable when it comes to benefits. For one thing, they aren’t fed diets too far removed from what they eat in the wild, like we are. Their bodies work in some ways the same but in others far differently from ours.
You have to estimate this on a case by case basis. Old evolutionary paths that are highly conserved are liable to have a common thread between rodents and humans. For example, the MK4 form of vitamin K2 is produced in both and its produced in all animals I’m aware of, even chickens and geese. When rat pups were given warfarin drugs from birth to prevent them from generating MK4, the rats died at around 2.5 months of age of calcified, burst arteries. Its known that warfarin has the same effect in humans of increasing calcification so the chemistry in both will be similar. So how MK4 is used for carboxylation and its need in any animal body is highly conserved, the animal doesn’t reach reproductive age if MK4 is missing or disturbed.
One example of a different chemistry is vitamin C. Most mammals make their own vitamin C internally in large quantities. Humans and Guinea Pigs survive without it by eating foods with vitamin C. Compared to this, not much MK4 vitamin K2 is available in foods and the internal transport systems that work with MK4 do not appear to work with the MK7 form, so we can’t adapt by eating the MK7 made by bacteria.
To me, the experiment where you study K2 vs calcification in rats on warfarin versus calcification in humans on warfarin should be compatible. Basic chemistry. But humans not on warfarin and on an atherogenic typical US diet vs rats on warfarin and on their typical chow would be a stretch. Too great a difference, even without the species issue. Yet that is often what is being done when hoping that ‘calcium is calcium’ and we should see improvement. The bodies would need to be matched up better with dietary challenges capable of spawning calcification in both species to tell if we can hope K2 will save lives from artery calcification from diet in humans; it would need to do exactly that in rodents with similar diets, and so far, that hasn’t been attempted to my knowledge. Anyone?
Glad to read such thorough coverage of an important nutritional topic.
One question came to mind given the warning about taking vitamin K while on Coumadin. I recently became aware of the coumarin content of some cinnamon. Would very much get your opinion about whether a warning should be extended to people not necessarily on prescription anticoagulants who consume cinnamon ?
Thank you for your writings
Good question, I’d have to look into it. Got a link to the research on it?
good start: https://www.cinnamonvogue.com/Types_of_Cinnamon_1.html
Suggest you make sure you are ingesting Ceylon Cinnamon. Your liver will thank you and it may not be an issue with anticoagulants.
Nice article! It is worthwhile reading this blog. Most of the people have not any kind of knowledge about K2 vitamin. K2 vitamin is also an important part for the body. Thank you for sharing this article.
I have a question about storage of my MK-4 supplement. I decided to buy the Thorne brand liquid K2 supplement (it is MK-4 suspended in MCT oil as a carrier). I am trying to simplify/minimize my daily routine because I don’t like having to rummage around and take several different pills or oils or supplements.
My thought is that since the Thorne product is so concentrated (1000ug per drop), could I just add it in to my bottle of Cod Liver Oil so I only have to take 1 supplement per day? Especially if I put the (already amber) bottle in a paper bag and keep it in the fridge, and shake it each time before using? Just take the number of servings per container and divide by 5, then add that many drops, right?
CLO is made up of approximately 1/4 PUFA (that’s the DHA/EPA), 1/4 saturated fatty acids, and 1/2 monounsaturated fatty acids, and most formulations also contain some tocopherols to promote stability. I would think a quality CLO would be a good carrier for this MK-4 supplement, but I wondered if anyone would be concerned about something in the CLO deactivating the K2?
I don’t think it will deactivate it, but you’d have to make sure it mixes properly.
Why not add the drops to your spoon first and then pour the CLO onto the spoon?
Thank you for your excellent information Chris. I have been reading your articles in Daily Lipid and the Price foundation for many years. My comments here are regarding the possibility of consuming too much K2. I am 75 year old female. I am in good health and take no medications and exercise daily. I do take some supplements in small quantities. Several years ago after becoming aware of vitamin K2 through reading Dr. William Davis’ site I started to make sure that I had K2 foods in my diet – mostly through pastured eggs and dairy (especially imported cheeses like Gouda and Jarlsberg , E. Swiss) and natto. I ate these foods every day and the cheeses in a large quantity. The natto I usually ate 1 of the 3+ oz cartons every other day. If I missed a day of natto I would take a Jarrow K2 7 capsule which has around 90 mcg or an Emu oil capsule. Last year I had surgery for a prolapsed bladder. The doctor told me that I did not bleed during surgery and asked me if I had any bleeding after surgery. I did not. He thought that was highly unusual. I did not discuss the issue with him. I was taking some supplements before surgery that actually could cause xs bleeding during surgery but I had stopped these about a week before the surgery. I was concerned about the lack of any bleeding from surgery and did a little research and did come up with a few articles that stated xs K2 can cause “hyper-coagulation” and hence possibly a stroke. I do not know if the information in the articles was valid but I decided that perhaps bleeding is a normal reaction to being cut during surgery and maybe I should cut back on the K2 just in case. So I cut down on the amount of cheese I was eating and eat natto every other day. I stopped taking K2 7 supplements altogether. I hope to have no more surgery to test the results of my cutback. I do bleed when I cut myself though.
Hmm, interesting, I too take K2 caps (mk7) and natto in green leaf shakes in a blender. Never thought it could affect my bleeding seems normal except I never bleed when I get a shot or blood draw. I tell them it’s because I’m too cheap. (old Jack Benny joke).
Hyper-coagulation fromcommon doses of vitamin K2 is a theory that is generally rejected by the results of MK4 and MK7 trials but the topic seems to have returned recently. In trials to identify this possibility, a group of patients were given 135 mg of MK4 daily for a few months and the result was no additional coagulation has occurred.
Here is a research reference:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5494092/
One with rabbits:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9414028
K2 cannot cause extra clotting. However, perhaps you have a clotting disorder and you had been K-deficient before, and now that you are not, you have too much clotting. You should have the doc check it out.
Your online article on Vitamin K2 is practically perfect. The graphics are well done and very helpful. You have answered all my questions, including ones I didn’t know I had. I have only recently learned of the importance of K2 for bone health. Since I don’t believe in calcium supplements and I am at higher risk for osteoporosis, this is important information. Eating lots of eggs, dark meat, and pork run counter to the dietary advice provided by most physicians to seniors. Looking forward to the medical community catching up (or breaking away from big pharma)
How can I get my sex drive back after taking insulin ejection 2 years???? Is it possible?
Chris (or anyone!),
Are you aware of any studies using K2 (with A, D3, magnesium) to treat heart valves? I have a congenital, bicuspid aortic valve and I would like to begin using K2 to assure that calcification does not harm its function.
Has anyone with this condition been using K2 (with A, D3, magnesium) successfully to stop valve stenosis / calcification and even reverse it? Which forms of K2: MK4, MK7 or both? Dosages?
What tests do I need to take to determine the function of this valve and to determine if calcification is, indeed, an issue?
Is there a cardiologist on the web who posts updates about K2 research?
Note: Everything I have read discusses the absolute vital importance of magnesium for heart / cardiovascular health. I am purchasing Dr. Carolyn Dean’s (see her mg book) ReMag and also using Ancient Minerals’ transdermal magnesium (see Dr. Sircus’s book).
I have been told if you have to go to the ER for a heart issue (stroke, heart attack, etc.), immediately take magnesium and / or spray it all over your body, and ask that the ER immediately give you IV magnesium, before any other treatment is begun.
William Davis is a cardiologist who has blogged a bit about K2. I’m not familiar with heart valve research.
I searched Dr. Davis and found this quote “Vitamin K2 is indeed worth considering, but you should know about the issue of bowel flora and K2 for future reference.” As usual my next rabbit hole was to search – gut flora and vit K2 issues which landed me here –
http://www.meschinohealth.com/blog/just-in/2012/05/24/vitamin-k2-heart-disease-gut-microflora-produce/
Dr. Meschino states that so much K2 is made in the gut that supplementation may result in overdose of K2 that “can make blood clotting too aggressive, forming abnormal clots that can lead to sudden death from a heart attack, stroke or lung embolism.”
So, my burning question is…. have you ever found this metabolic situation supported in you study of Vit K2?
You can safely discard these two opinions about vitamin K2.
Find sources that consider the MK4 and MK7 forms separately in research and in the body. The MK7 form is made by bacteria and doesn’t get around easily in the body evidenced by the 3.5 day half life and higher side effects in those sensitive to MK7. There are no records of clotting events I know of from research or medical reports, otherwise eating natto would be known to be dangerous.
The MK4 form is that which is made by the body for carboxylation of MGP and Calcitonin, vital proteins to reversing artery calcification and maintaining bone health. The MK4 is made in a bio identical form by a factory but is normal to the body and well controlled by the body. In research trials, doses of up to 135 mg per day have been tried with no ill effects. MK4 has been an adjunct to treating heart disease and bone loss since 1995 in Japan. The MK4 works outside the liver in the body so it only has a small effect on blood clotting as compared to vitamin K which is central to blood clotting factors. Adding more vitamin K does not increase blood clotting in healthy people who are not on warfarin drugs.
Reliable reporting is available in Life Extension magazine articles on vitamin K2 and referenced NBI research articles. Both Companies sell MK4 and MK7 vitamin K2 products.
Dear Chris, Dwight and Dave,
Thanks for the info! I really appreciate the cutting edge help re. heart valves and K2!
I have also noted inconsistencies on the web re. K2 MK4 and MK7 and given that I need to keep a heart valve happy, I cannot afford mistakes. Do I need MK4, MK7, or both, and how much is therapeutic?
Since I ferment foods, I looked into fermenting as a good, reliable source of daily K2.
Dave, I read an earlier comment of yours, below, re. Dr. Mercola and Vitamin K2; you stated he – incorrectly – utilized K2 MK4 research to validate buying his K2 MK7 supplement products.
I actually looked into buying the bacteria/fermentation product Dr. Mercola sells, with which you can ferment vegetables and create, supposedly, a fermented food product with a lot of K2 (menaquinone: see https://www.probioticscenter.org/dr-mercola-kinetic-culture/).
Kinetic Culture PR states: ” Vitamin K2 is naturally produced by the fermentation process, and certain probiotic strains can produce more K2 than others. Kinetic Culture was created specifically to produce ample amounts of K2.” (See: https://www.mercola.com/pressroom/march-2014/mercola-com-releases-kinetic-culture.htm)
(Note the PR does not disclose which type of K2 the product produces.)
The bacteria he sells are mostly Lactobacillus, with a few Bifidos added in and it is EXTREMELY, outrageously expensive. Furthermore, natto (fermented soybeans, which is the highest fermented food source of K2 MK7, I believe) uses B. subtillus bacteria to ferment. Mercola’s product contains NO B. subtillus.
Here is the list of bacteria in his product:
Lactobacillus acidophilus DDS-1
Bifidobacterium Lactis
Lactobacillus plantarum
Lactobacillus rhamnosus
Lactobacillus casei
Bifidobacterium bifidum
Lactobacillus brevis
Bifidobacterium longum
Streptococcus thermophilus
Lactobacillus salivarius
Note the absence of B. subtillus. Actually, I don’t think B. subtillus would work upon vegetables, it works upon beans: hence natto (fermented soybeans) as a high source of K2 MK7.
Therefore, I don’t understand how this fermented product is producing a large amount of K2 MK7. Sauerkraut, according to food lists, is a very poor source of K2 MK7; how can this Mercola ferment product be any better than plain old fermented cabbage and salt?
I believe Chris stated in his article that he contacted Dr. Mercola to find out how much K2 MK7 his bacteria product produces and he had not yet heard back.
And, this product, if it is producing ANY K2, would be producing K2 MK7 (sourced from fermentation), not K2 MK4 (sourced from animal products).
I, therefore, decided NOT to buy this bacteria product and will, instead ferment my own black beans (soybeans are too risky as re. to GMO and Round-Up contamination) using B. subtillus from Cultures for Health for a mere $5.95, which will last for months of fermenting beans! (see: https://www.culturesforhealth.com/mitoku-traditional-natto-spores.html)
However, I am still left with the issue that this homemade fermented food is producing K2 MK7 not K2 MK4.
Is it, in fact, K2 MK4 which I need to take to keep heart valves / arteries free of calcium?
One factoid which I throw out there is that this Mercola bacteria mix MAY produce a lot of K2 MK7 (we need verification of that fact from Mercola with stats/data), but its potency may degrade rapidly, once the product is exposed to air.
I know this because I have followed the sinusitis story over at lactobacto.com (it is an amazing story, go read it if you suffer with sinusitis and go buy kimchi or the brand new L. sakei probiotic pill) and those people who use the juice from Kimchi to repopulate their nasal biome have found that the Kimchi bacteria which balances the biome (L. sakei) loses potency – after opening the jar – in about 7 – 10 or so days.
So, we need to know if this fact is true about Mercola’s – or anybody’s – fermentation bacteria product, with, alleged, high levels of K2 MK7: that is, is potency lost after 7 -10 or so days’ exposure to oxygen?
BTW, it is at that website – lactobacto.com – that I discovered that it is likely the garlic in the kimchi which produces the L. sakei bacteria which re-balances the nasal biome, so I am going to ferment just plain old garlic and take one every morning.
Dr. Kate Rhéaume-Bleue, ND, who wrote the book Vitamin K2 and the Calcium Paradox: How a Little-Known Vitamin Could Save Your Life, wrote about using K2 MK4 vs. K2 MK7 for healing rheumatoid arthritis, in her article, Choosing the Right Vitamin K2: Menaquinone-4 vs Menaquinone-7
Clinical considerations of different forms of vitamin K2 (see: https://www.naturalmedicinejournal.com/journal/2015-10/choosing-right-vitamin-k2-menaquinone-4-vs-menaquinone-7).
I, too, am going down the rabbit hole – in my case re. de-calcifying heart valves – and this K2 article by Chris Maseterjohn is an INVALUABLE tool for me! Thank you Chris. You are helping so many of us get and stay healthy with (and despite, in many cases) the advice of our medical doctors.
Newsflash: Vitamin K REGULATES clotting, it doesn’t cause clotting.
MK-7 is THE form that is most effective, not the overhyped K2-K4.
“Later studies, in which the long-chain menaquinone-7 (MK-7) was used to counteract warfarin-induced calcification, showed that this form of menaquinone was even more potent than menaquinone-4. ”
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3648717/
Laura, you often see that comment “you don’t have to take K2 because bacteria in your gut make plenty”. The problem is that the K2 is bound up inside the cell of the bacteria and is not available to us. Mercola has an interview with Cees Vermeer who is a member of the Rotterdam Group research team that have done a lot of research on K2. Mercola asks about absorbing K2 from your gut bacteria and Cees replies “only if you’re prepared to eat your own feces like rats do”! (See, easy and doesn’t cost anything 😁) He goes on to make the point about the K2 being bound up in the bacteria cell and also points out that the K2 bacteria are too low down in the gut for absorption to take place anyway.
The Rotterdam Group have done experiments inducing arterial calcification in rats by giving them warfarin and then reversed it with K2-MK7. The calcification is because the warfarin (aka Heparin or Coumadin) prevents the K1>K2 conversion. They also showed that by giving K2 with the warfarin they could prevent the calcification in the first place. (search PubMed for the papers) If you are taking warfarin/Coumadin you might want to do this but I would take MK-4 (doesn’t convert to K1 per Chris above) and adjust the warfarin dosage to get acceptable INR.
A lot of people (including Cees) recommend MK-7 instead of MK-4 because of its longer persistence in the blood. But as Chris points out that’s because the body prefers MK-4 so it’s rapidly absorbed. I take both.
I take both,too, but I doubt either is going to fix a calcification problem that stems from acidosis, or soft plaques that attract calcium, all by K2 alone. If the body is using calcium from bones to neutralize acid from too high protein in diet, or to stabilize dangerous plaques, the body is complicit in the calcium deposits out of self-preservation. A low acid-forming diet, a low plaque-forming diet, plus K2? maybe. maybe. But alone with just vitamin D3 or other tweaks against the tidal wave of the other factors, I tend to doubt it.
Prolia was not mentioned. Every 6 months syringe of 60mg.
I do take. K-7
Have critical osteoporosis
Does one fight or enhance each other?
Thank you. Marge Lyons
Natural Vitamin K2-7 is very important for healthy life e.g. Bone, Dianetes and Muscle health etc.
MenaquinGold is the most researched natural vitamin k2.
This is properly explained in this page.
https://www.synergialifesciences.com/natural-vitamin-k2-menaquingold.html
GreatDanes –
Cyclodextrin may cause permanent hearing loss.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5676048/
You should not concern yourself with the calcium that you already have in your arteries. You are asymptotic; It’s not a problem.
Plaque is caused by oxidized LDL and endothelial inflammation. Eliminate either one of those and you cannot form plaque.
You need to get back on your statin. As I recall you had an LDL 500 Ca score may just as well have been from 20 years ago before you were on statins.
You need to focus on your inflammation. Your HsCRP is still too high and may well be indicative of inflammation of your endothelium. Pauling therapy may help. Plant based diets will usually work well. Testing for Homocysteine is more specific to blood vessel inflammation and costs about the same as HsCRP.
I would not be trying to remove any Ca until you get your LDL under 60 and your CRP under 1.
Best of luck!
ChetT – My original LDL score from March of 2016 was 50. At that time I was onw of the longest people in the world on statins – my doctor in Phoenix Az back in 1979 to early 1980’s, got me into a trial (and then a followup trial for many years – if I remember that went from around ’82 or ’83 to ’87 some time) and a pharmaceutical product that eventually was approved called Mevacor. I had been on increasing doses of statins since then until I stopped in 2016. I stopped because I still got a calcium score of 299 with an LDL reading of only 58.
My Homocysteine is consistantly around 9 for many years.
Oxidized LDL seems not to be a problem because my last Myeloperoxidase score last month was a good 282 with an LDL particle number of 626 and a LDL particle size of 21. Small LDL P was <90 and APO B was 95 (I would like to get that down to 80, but 95 may be OK).
Insulin good at 3.2 and hbA1C good at 5.1 – normal values on a plant based diet (but the Homocysteine of 9 is a bit of a puzzle?)
My GP can't figure the bad CRP and neither have 2 (mostly useless) cardiologists.
Yet still the calcium score rose to 452.
The paper you referenced was mostly base on HPβCD. theHPαCD doesn't seem as bad.
Heart Disease
maintain flexibility and integrity of the intima.
Magnesium supplements
Vitamin K2 activates Matrix GLA protein
Vitamin D3 stimulates production of Matrix GLA Protein 6x
Vitamin A required for D3 activity
DHA vitamin lipids maintain membrane flexibility
curb systemic inflammation
niacin reduces the LDL capable of passing through cracks in the intima and accumulating as plaque in the intermedia.
——–
The porous interstitium behind the arterial intima accumulates Low Density Lipoproteins through breaches in the intima. The intima loses elasticity, and structural integrity for lack of magnesium counter ions, Matrix GLA Protein for Ca removal, and fluid continuity induced by docosahexaenoic acid. The mechanism for repair of atherosclerosis follows the cause.
maintain fluid integrity of the intima, lining of blood vessels.
Magnesium supplements, the proper flexible counter ion for cell membranes
Vitamin K2 activates Matrix GLA protein that removes improper Ca counter ions
Vitamin D3 stimulates 6x production of Matrix GLA Protein (10,000 IU)
Vitamin A required for D3 activity (10,000 IU)
DHA fish vitamin lipids maintain membrane flexibility
Chelates help remove calcium (Vitamin C, alpha lipoic acid, citrate)
curb systemic inflammation (tumorecht)
niacin reduces blood titer of LDL capable of passing through cracks in the intima and accumulating as plaque in the intermedia.
Elevated blood homocysteine signals an impaired methyl transfer pathway. Methyl groups are essential for producing choline for cell membrane structural integrity, DNA regulation, and brain memory neurotransmitters.
Methyl transfer pathways depend upon a combination of essential vitamins: B6, B12, folic acid, and a source of methyl groups. Meat is a good source of methyl groups. Otherwise think lecithin, and arginine.
It took you 68 years to build up a Ca score of 299. Then you stopped the Crestor and went from 299 to 452 over the last 2 years. That’s about a 25% increase per year. I gotta wonder just how high that number would have been had you not been on statins for most of your life.
Switching to the Mediterranean diet did seem to do you some good in lowering your CRP but your LDL is now at 99. I really believe that you need to get back on your statins.
It looks like you have had expanded cholesterol tests. I’m curious, what are your HDL particle counts? With all this “good” cholesterol you gotta wonder why there is little reverse cholesterol transport (RCT). Do you supplement with omega3? Do you know if you carry the ApoE4 gene variant?
Hi ChetT – my ApoE4 score is double E3 which is standard risk.
I do use Innovix Triple Strength fish oil every day, and eat at least 3 fish meals per week.
My HDL-P is consistently around 40 on the NMR scale, so it would be much higher on the CIM scale but I don’t have that scale available here. On NMR > 30 or 31 is standard risk and > 34.9 is very low risk .
Also on the NMR scale my LP-IR score is <25 which is very low risk and that brings me to the crux of the statin problem.
In 2015 the American College of Cardiology finally released their report (after sitting on it for well over a year) "Statin Intolerance: Not a Myth".
In this report on strongly under reported side effects from intensive dose statins they finally admitted that one (among many side effects in the report) they found "risk of new onset diabetes (NOD) (9-27%),
Intensive-dose statin therapy is associated with a 12% higher incidence of NOD compared with moderate-dose statin therapy".
So, to get back to the statins, my IR and glucose/A1C readings were bad on statins at effective doses. Low dose statins did almost nothing for me and high dose statins were puttin me pre-diabetic, which was a common problem in the report.
Stop statins and my IR clears but cholesterol goes up. Continue statins and new onset diabetes train was in the tunnel – so stopped statins and IR A1C are all good now.
So pick my poison – low cholesterol or bad IR? Not a great choice.
Greatdanes-
My advice is don’t worry about the cholesterol levels. Be concerned about the long-term damage that might have accrued due to statins and do everything you can to support your health, rather than poison it.
Many studies have shown that statins don’t reduce the progression of calcium scores. While statins might reduce inflammation, you’re better off doing so by discovering the source of the inflammation and eliminating it. Ask the hard questions: where would I be harboring sub-clinical infections?
I for one would be wondering whether I had an low grade infection in the heart vessels and looking into studies that show anti-microbials success in reducing the progression of heart calcium. eg., using aged garlic extracts or allicin. I would also be asking whether my dental health is somehow involved, eg., do I have root canals that might be infected and in need of removal? (Really big question and potentially very expensive as most root canals show no signs of overt infection
Your genetics might necessitate a higher need for ascorbates. The high HDL might indicate a higher blood lp(a) level than normal (did your blood tests include testing lp(a) ? ) , and that is again genetically determined. The theory that by increasing the serum ascorbate level will reduce the lp(a) level is worth reviewing. Again, if there are sub-clinical infections untreated, any ascorbate you get via diet and supplementation must be great enough to deal with those as well as countering any genetically determined levels of lp(a).
The use of lycine and proline in the Pauling/Rath treatment will also somewhat inhibit the ability of lp(a) to “stick” to the problematic blood vessels.
https://www.scirp.org/journal/PaperInformation.aspx?PaperID=72016
At least one source suggests removing gluten food products from the diet will also assist in halting the progression of calcium although I don’t know the nature of the studies done
(same source for aged garlic references):
https://jeffreydachmd.com/2015/06/coronary-calcium-score-benefits-of-aged-garlic/
Alan – I have started the Rath/Pauling Protocol and hope to be at recommended dose by next week, I am increasing the C a bit each day since C added quickly can have gastric side effects.
As previously noted my Myeloperoxidase score last month was a good 282. MPO is an indicator of oxLDL activitity.
I have scheduled full dental x-ray’s for next month so that will be checked as recommended.
Regrettably did not do lpa(a) yet so that will be corrected soon however Apo B was pretty good at 95. Gluten has been gone for 2 years now – I don’t touch it.
A low grade infection in the heart vessels is a real possibility – the CRP is coming from somewhere. There is also some probability that BPH/LUTS is the source of some CRP problems in my case. The other strong possibility is inflammation discovered during 2 endoscopic procedures. Gastro specialists recommended long treatments with PPI’s – been there and done that for ulcers and probably had leaky gut from PPI’s for many years, so I avoid them now. These are some sub-clinical infections areas to be looked at, however I try to avoid antibiotics unless I have a extreme emergency – so I will look at natural anti-microbial treatments now.
GreatDanes,
Well if you can no longer take a statin to lower your LDL then I guess your left with focusing on the health of your arteries. The Pauling protocol reads well and has a lot of anecdotal support. It should help but who knows. That anti-inflammatory protocol by Dr. Kaufmann might be another thing to consider. It seems I’ve been doing a variation of this for some time now.
Hey if you’ve got 10 grand to spend you might want to take yourself to the ILC clinic in Hungary for 6 weeks and get the cholesterol immunization they’ve been selling for a decade now.
http://www.ilchungary.com/treatments/cholesterol-immunization/
I found it very interesting but could never verify any of their claims.
Best of luck
My recommendation to look into your dental health for low grade infections is based on very controversial ideas about root canals and so called cavitations: areas of infection left behind to fester in the jaw after the bone/gums have healed. If you’ve had ANY root canals or ANY extractions, there are dentists that believe that those are areas of possible long-term low grade infections (and that the toxins produced in those infections are very strong, if only in small amounts produced and seeping into the bloodstream). (Implants are more likely to represent areas of inflammation due to a body reaction to an incompatible metal, eg. titanium.) Any mercury/silver amalgams in your teeth also might contribute to inflammation elsewhere in the body if you have a strong reaction to the metal.
The more obvious type of dental infection would come from gingivitis and periodontal disease; some dentists will determine the nature of the organisms in your dental plaque to see if they are esp. virulent. We’ve all heard about these organisms ability to further infect heart tissue, esp. valves. I know someone who had a severe backpain, that turned out to be an infection in his spine and the doctors were amazed that the infectious organisms found were dental in origin; this same person shortly afterwards had heart valve surgery (and possible never connected the dots about the possible relationship to the dental infections). These types of infection should be relatively easy to treat.
The problem with root canals and cavitations is that it can be near impossible ( x-rays won’t help much at all unless the root canal tip is obviously infected, in which case you’d probably have symptoms already) without more surgery to determine if an area is infected, ie., the need to remove the root canal(s) and/or an exploratory dig into long sealed over extraction sites. Some dentist believe that all root canals are problematic and advise extraction. There was a device developed to determine if cavitations existed, but I don’t believe it got much usage.
So, if you’ve had no extractions (eg. long ago removed wisdom teeth) and you’ve had no root canals, and your gums have been in good condition, I wouldn’t worry too much about dental related inflammations.
Considering that you’ve had ulcers and assumedly treated the ulcers with antibiotics (or perhaps mastic gum) while you were using the PPI’s, and assumedly you’ve tested negative for h. pylori since, then given that you believe you’ve had leaky gut going on, it would seem beneficial to continue to work on healing that as you’ve indicated. Again, if you have any mercury in your teeth, it could be contributing to problems in your digestive track, such as leaky gut.
For me, it’s most important to realize that many factors can increase the need for extra vitamin C (and other complimentary nutrients). Excessive exercising will definitely increase the need. Negative stressors in general will put an increased demand on the adrenal glands which then need more continual and consistent support.
You may want to change your opinion in mk4 vs mk7 in terms of coronary artery calcification. This studyhttps://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4866409
found one YEAR worth of mk4 supplementation did NOT reverse CAC, in fact CAC got worse in the mk4!
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/
Also this study found blood levels of vitamin k did NOT INCREASE above baseline whatsoever in a mk4 supplemented group compared to significant increases up to 48 hours in the mk7 group. youhttps://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3502319/
You may need to rethink the effectiveness of mk4.
Not surprising. It seems to me that coronary artery calcium isn’t the result of a simple vitamin deficiency. And it won’t be reversed or stopped by supplying the vitamin. The body is responding to the atherosclerosis by throwing in calcium to stabilize things, not mistakenly adding calcium where it does not belong.
Plaque volume is about 20-25 percent calcium. What I’ve read shows that it forms when smooth muscle cells migrate into the sub-endothelium and change their phenotype, forming a matrix for calcium to attach onto.
To stop them from this migrating, it’s necessary to introduce nitric oxide. If the endothelium is damaged it can’t make nitric oxide so the process continues. Dietary changes, including introduction of nitrates and nitrites from beets and greens, L-cittruline, and natural whole food antioxidants can boost nitric oxide and may help to halt this process. If you are not willing to give up things in the diet that cause the disease, don’t bet on a vitamin to go up against them. I use Dr. Esselstyn’s diet along with nitric oxide management and test strips by Berkeley to find my nitric oxide levels. I got a bad calcium score of 579 two years ago, and have not gone back to find out how much higher it went. I’m more concerned about the softer plaques rupturing, and reducing those. In the 2 years, my erectile dysfunction has been reversing without any drugs, so that is good news. Even if I stop the nitric oxide supplements, the ED stays fixed on this diet. I’m 72
Personally I have found taking 1.3 mg of MK4 daily to be very effective at reducing artery calcification over 12-18 months when there was nothing else that would affect the condition symptoms over 20 years.
Its been verified in research that the MK4 vitamin K2 is what the animal or human body makes for its own carboxylation purposes. Totally subtracting MK7 and MK4 from the diet does not produce recognizable K2 deficiency in young animals as the MK4 produced within the body answers this need. The production of MK4 can be stopped by applying warfarin drugs to the cohort and this immediately produces severe artery calcification and early death in animal trials.
I don’t know why this trial didn’t work to produce better results. One item is that if vitamin D levels are low, little of the Matrix GLA Protein is produced and since this protein actually does the calcium control when carboxylated, a low or very low Matrix GLA could produce null results in calcium scavenging actions. There are numerous successful trials with MK4 vitamin K2 that cannot be discounted due to a single null result.
I had and probably still do have, real bad calcification, 579 calcium score, and absolutely no symptoms from it. I was amazed to find out via the scan.
I don’t know how you can know what is going on with coronary calcium from symptoms alone. If that were possible, the disease wouldn’t be known as the stealth disease, and the scan would not have saved so many lives by alerting us to who is really at risk. I’m glad your symptoms have improved and hope that continues for you, of course.
I’d say that Angina is a very unstealthy symptom of a constricted coronary artery and you’ll find a lot of anecdotal testimony about how taking this or that supplement or some other lifestyle change will have a significant effect on the symptoms.
I see that you have chosen what I would call an extreme lifestyle change with your plant based diet. That may be a great choice but until you get another scan we won’t really know if it’s had any measurable effect but you do have some good studies on your side.
I chose to make some sensible dietary changes and use supplements and my read of the science to offset the negative effects my fuel and lifestyle might cause. I’ll get another scan and tests to monitor my success or failure.
I’ve commented before but will say again, the calcium score rarely if ever lowers, even if total plaque volume declines. Plaque reduction destabilizes it and the body throws in more calcium to help out. Don’t be disheartened if your score goes up again. It is only 20 percent or so of total plaque volume, you want the rest of the plaque to go down to get the greatest benefit percentagewise from your efforts. I have little doubt my diet, which is only extreme in western civilization, but not in places where it is natural and they do not have heart disease. I’m used to it now, and your diet would seem extreme to me, I’d bet! 🙂 Best of luck, and good going on fighting back.
Thanks, Chet. I had so much fear I did take extreme measures, however, I believe the diet isn’t that extreme except in the US and others. In a large part of the world population it is very normal and they’ve got close to zero artery disease per studies. It’s a couple billion people doing this. I considered moderation but with my former big meat diet, I chose to compensate, not moderate, so as to drag my lifetime average to moderate. Most people consider what I do extreme, however. I tell them I eat what everyone else does, just different quantities, and zero is a quantity. 😉
Regarding these ncbi studies, no one has mentioned a critical detail: that the participants took 45 mg of mk-4 per day. Although I have long been a bit skeptical regarding these reversal of calcification in the arteries claims myself, the skepticism goes both ways. Yes, I know that that is the dosage used in studies in Japan to reduce bone loss (NOT intended for reducing CAC), but for a person to take that much per day for long periods of time is a dubious course of action. First of all, no group of people throughout history could ever have eaten anywhere near that much mk-4 as part of a natural diet. Furthermore, as Chris has stated, it is actually the mk-7 that seems to more effectively aid the bones, such that one can get impressive results with pedestrian-level intakes such as 100 mcg. per day. Trying to improve your bones (or reverse CAC, for that matter) with massive doses of mk-4 may be a lot like trying to get your daily requirement of potassium by eating snack foods — it may be possible, but there are far better ways to do it, and you may be also doing yourself some damage in the process.
What I’m leading to is that it does not necessarily follow that just because taking vast amounts of K2 mk-4 has not been shown to “reduce CAC or arterial stiffness,” that this then must logically infer that taking far lesser amounts will be just as ineffective — crazy as it might at first sound. After all, many people get too little vitamin A, for which the RDA is currently set at about 5,000 IU’s. Does this mean that getting 50,000 IU’s of it daily will be even better?
There seems to be controversy as to whether D3 and K2 should be taken together or separately. Some nutritionists recommend taking D3 in the morning and K2 in the afternoon or evening for greater absorption. I take fish oil at both times. What is your view? Also, I take two Calcium/Magnesium/D3 supplements (Kirkland/Costco) totaling 500mg calcium citrate each day, once morning, once evening. I’m thinking I have serious calcium buildup. Should I cut back? (I also take Magnesium 400mg at a different time.) I am working hard to eat more nuts, dairy, salmon and fresh vegetables.
I don’t think it matters if you take them together or separately.
This is a documentation of one person’s experience with calcium scoring and attempted treatments. None of my degrees are in a medical field and I can not give medical advice, and I am not making any medical recommendations in this post – simply stating what my calcium problems and attempts to treat myself through my own research.
March 2016: Age 68 yo. Weight 192 lbs.
First ever calcium score.
Total 299 (Right Corn. 127, Left Ant. 172)
Meds. 40Mg Crestor and 10 mg. Lisinipril.
BP 122/82 Chols. Tot. 165, LDL 58, HDL 93 TG 69
The Calcium score caught me by surprise at 299 so, in my individual case, a high dose of statins did not prevent calcification. I Have no idea if statins might help others?
So, time to research.
Started taking MK4 at 5mg 2X day. MK7 at 180 mcg. 2X day. Vit A at 5000 iu. 2X day and Vit. D at 5000 iu also 2X day.
At least 1.5 hours exercise per day 5X week – heavy on aerobics.
Plus a Mediterranean type diet heavy plants, but mostly grain free.
Fast forward to Sept. 2018: Age 71yo. Weight 150 lbs.
Calcium score of 452 (Right Corn. 217, Left Ant. 235)
BP 109/70 NO MEDS anymore.
Chols. Tot. 217, LDL 99, HDL 99 TG 93 NO MEDS anymore.
So I am much worse on calcium but better on most other measures.
And I don’t understand what went wrong with continued calcium buildup – or maybe ‘capping’ is what increased the calcium score?
Changes since the bad Sept 2018 reading:
Modifying my diet away from Mediterranean toward primal/keto (see Mark Sissions book if interested).
Changing exercise to much more weights and much less aerobics. All the aerobics appeared not to help me.
Currently investigating the use of meds/supplements:
dasatinib, metformin, and rapamycin and cyclodextrin.
I have e-mailed with Dr. Alan Green and he believes that the combo of staggered, low dose rapamycin may cap soft plaques when combined with daily metformin.
Also now investigating Dr. Sandra Kaufmann’s protocols but haven’t made decisions on anything except diet/exercises.
AGAIN – my personal experiences here – there is no medical advice or medical recommendations.
Thank you for your detailed documentation. I can profit from your experience.
Your calcium score result is perplexing. I suggest you add a magnesium supplement to your diet. Magnesium is the intended counter ion for all cell membrane phospholipids. In the absence of adequate magnesium calcium substitutes because of its similarity on the periodic table. Unfortunately calcium does not confer the fluid property of magnesium. The least expensive source of magnesium is milk of magnesia diluted into lemon juice, and diluted again into drinking water.
Hi Keith – magnesium (mostly citrate) has been at least 600 mg per day with most days at 800-1000 for many years. I also take high quality fish oil, B vits (pre-methylated) and a very complicated multi vit schedule.
On a plant based diet some of the things that happened was my iron/ferritin levels plummeted to anemia levels and my TSH went from 2.5 to 4.05. These values are recovering now. TSH back to 1.97 this week and iron/ferritin just above the anemic range and seem to be improving.
Back on grass fed meat/dairy and more salmon meals for almost 3 months now.
One possible conclusion to me (and there is much research on this) is that not all diets work for all people and a plant diet was not correct for me – seemed worth trying at the time. Plant diets work well for some people and for those lucky ones I an happy they found a solution.
Notice the significantly high HDL in both of your shown labs. Has this been explored, eg. have you been taking high dose niacin? For men with HDL’s in the 90’s there might be a genetic cause for CVD:
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/319275.php
GreatDane,
Vitamin K2 is not the whole story, nor the complete answer to age related maladies. You may ponder my recent observations:
mitochondria
I’ve been reading and wrestling with potential cures for my age onset asthma. Slowly my thoughts consolidated on the loss of mitochondrial ATP energy supply as the foundation cause of aging also called senescence. I found several good reviews on the subject. The masters of the universe have come to the same conclusion. I am a few years late to the party.
Fortunately there are seven interventions to restore mitochondrial ATP production.
1. maximum stress on the quadriceps stimulates the healthy mitochondria to divide. This replaces damaged mitochondria. Think leg press machine and squats.
2. Taurine is a conditional vitamin necessary for the first steps in oxidative phosphorylation. Plenty = 1gm/100gm is available in fatty fish, shellfish, and egg yolks. Well cooked meats lose their taurine. Veggies have none.
3. alpha lipoic acid is necessary for the second two steps in oxidative phosphorylation. 600mg supplements are adequate. This one declines with age but I have read no data.
4. L-carnitine is necessary for transport of fats into mitochondria for oxidation fuel. Diversion of fats away from storage and toward ATP production aids in weight loss. 1-2 grams per day supplements are adequate. Body builders swear by it for removing fat between skin and muscle. I notice more energy climbing a 30% uphill grade after four days at 1.5gm/day. I am hopeful for a gut fat reduction effect. Half time in blood is 2.5 days so it builds to max blood titer in fifteen days. Acetyl-L-carnitine rapidly (hours) crosses the blood brain barrier and contributes to positive mood and synthesis of acetyl choline necessary for memory. L-carnitine apparently does not cross the blood brain barrier.
5. ubiquinol peaks at age 20-25 at 500 mg/day. Synthesis declines by half every twenty years. I take 400 mg/day. Required for the last four stages of ATP production. Said to be highly synergistic with alpha lipoic acid.
6. Vitamin K2 substitutes or contributes to ubiquinol function and low level 360 microgram/day supplements add 15% to respiratory capacity of young trained athletes. Perhaps more is better. No known toxicity to 45 milligrams/day.
7. Zinc. 22 milligrams/day seems minimum daily requirement. Up to 100 mg/day for a few days are tolerated. 300 mg/day is toxic and inhibits ATP production. Zinc deficiency causes benign prostate hypertrophy and difficulty urinating. Men have a built in signal for zinc deficiency that can be cured in two days of 50mg/day. Zinc is necessary for countless enzyme systems including the mitochondria ATP systems.
Low ATP leads to failure of cell repair and failure of apoptosis (suicide of old sick cells). Bad cells are not cleared but become necrotic. Stimulation of inflammatory interleucin peptide hormones results and leads to inflammatory diseases such as asthma, arthritis, eczema, psoriasis, Crone’s, periodontal disease….
Keith
https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007/s001250051536.pdf
https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2017/03/harvard-scientists-pinpoint-critical-step-in-dna-repair-cellular-aging/
http://www.resveratrolnews.com/history-of-nicotinamide-and-aging/868/
After two to three months I notice general health improvements:
1. Severe asthma cured
2. Blue color vision is more intense.
3. Dreams are in vivid colors
4. Recurring ear canal infection cured, hearing recovered.
5. Blood pressure normal with medication and near normal without.
6. Positive mood and great tolerance to situation stress.
7. More resistant to itchy fungal skin infections, a hyperthyroid risk.
8. Exercise is aerobic without lactic acid soreness. Increased strength.
9. I move more quickly with a bounce in my step…I am stressing my arches.
10. Less appetite …Lost ten pounds of fat effortlessly.
11. Better memory and focus on academic texts.
12. Better balance when donning undershorts in the morning.
13. I am motivated to begin and complete projects.
14. Deeper sleep and more sleep. Repairs are underway.
15. Benign prostate hyperplasia cured without the aid of Zinc.
16. All the women look pretty.
Therapy per day:
1 gram L-carnitine
1 gram acetyl-L-carnitine
1 gram nicotinamide
600 mg alpha-lipoic acid
400 mg ubiquinol
homemade fermented vitamin K2 liver pate
frequent omega-3 foods
5,000 IU Vitamin D3
frequent vitamin A foods
50 milligrams DHEA
25 milligrams pregnenolone
———————————————
Millions of experiments support the following model of old age remediation:
Age is caused by insufficient mitochondrial production of ATP energy. Inadequate ATP energy causes lethargy, failure of the immune system, and repair failures. Mutated damaged cells are not cleared via apoptosis.
Damaged cells become necrotic and exacerbate inappropriate immune responses.
Mitochondria ATP energy production declines from failure of DNA repair.
Cancer is caused by failure of DNA repair.
DNA repair fails for lack of mitochondrial ATP/NAD+ support.
Supplementing mitochondrial energy production cofactors does significantly increase ATP production in mitochondria. These cofactors are NAD+ from nicotinamide, carnitine, alpha-lipoic acid, ubiquinol, and vitamin k2.
Restoring adequate ATP enables clearance of necrotic cells.
Restoring adequate ATP enables clearance of damaged mitochondria.
Restoring adequate ATP enables DNA repair.
Restoring adequate ATP prevents cancer by apoptosis and DNA repair.
Exercise stress causes healthy mitochondria to multiply.
Keith – thank you so much for your extensive research and experience. Some of the things you recommend I am already doing. I do ubiquinol, but will boost to 400mg now and will up zinc carnitine and add taurine.
Unfortunately, do to 5 hernia operations, my surgeon has read me the riot act on squats, dead lifts and leg presses (my 3 most favorite exercises for last 50 years or so) and also most Ab work.
This is a real crimp, but he has done over 7500 hernia and if I get one more it will set his all time record. He says I was not age/weight class appropiate, so i have stopped these heavy exercises since June 2016. I really miss them.
Your 1 gm. Nicotinamide may be a bit of a problem. I was a bit in shocked at the cost when I looked it up today.
Question – will your 50 mg of DHEA increase BPH problems or will pregnenolone cause problems? Haven’t tried these yet but am putting together a supplement order now (ouch on the Nicotimamide!).
Again – thanks,
Regards,
Greatdanes (Mike)
Keith, Mike–
I need to advise research into the potential downside to supplemental alpha lipoic acid (aka lipoic acid, thioctic acid) and suggest caution if you have any mercury “silver” amalgam fillings or have any history of mercury exposure (broken florescent light bulbs are common potential exposures, although playing with “liquid” mercury as a child (from themometers) is perhaps more common); ALA is a known to chelate mercury and it is also capable of passing the blood-brain barrier. Andrew Cutler did quite a bit of research on this and there ‘s quite a bit of anecdotal evidence that doses of ALA taken at too high and too infrequently can severely aggravate someone showing low grade symptoms of chronic mercury toxicity.
That being said, I was taking high doses of ALA once a day, and it took a few years before I started having increased symptoms of said toxicity.
I consider myself fortunate that I stopped when I did….
GreatDanes:
Pregnenolone and DHEA are inactive reservoirs of raw material for producing active steroid hormones as required. Our bodies produce these inactive molecules in a daily cycle between 4AM and 10AM. As we age we produce less. One activity of pregenenolone is notable. During WWII the USArmy gave 100 mg of pregnenolone to half of a large sample of recruits. The recruits were given a competency exam. Those who received the pregnenolone before the test scored significantly higher than those who did not.
Keith, you wrote:
“. Zinc deficiency causes benign prostate hypertrophy and difficulty urinating. Men have a built in signal for zinc deficiency that can be cured in two days of 50mg/day.”
If we can cure enlarged prostate with 50mg zinc for 2 days it raises the question: why is surgery performed on so many older men ? (I think I can guess – no money for the doctors in zinc tablets.) Do you have a source for zinc curing prostate hypertrophy? – it would come in handy to convince sceptics. Also, how did you reverse your PH without zinc?
Re acetyl-l-carnitine and alpha-lipoic acid, when Bruce Ames supplemented old rats with ALC they became much more active but their mitochondria were spewing out lots of free radicals so he added the ALA to mop them up. It’s therefore important to take both together.
Re the B3, AIUI nicotinic acid is metabolized in the body to niacinamide, but with cardiovascular benefits. So unless you can’t stand the flushing, NA might be the better option.
How are you making your probiotic liver pate and how do you ensure it’s got K2?
Stuart
Method for fermentation of Bacillus subtilis vitamin K2:
Homogenize two 50 gram packets of frozen natto into one cup molasses plus one cup of nutritional yeast.
Dilute to 3 liters.
Aerate at 3.5 liters per minute with aquarium air pumps and air stones.
Add molasses if appropriate.
Fermentation ends when the ferment bubbles over after approximately 3 days. Foaming may be prevented by covering the surface with vegetable oil.
Recipe for Bacillus subtilis pate:
Homogenize fermentation liquor product with 3 pounds cooked beef liver.
Add liver pate spices.
Slow cook the liver slurry to a paste.
Cool the paste and mix with equal amount of mixed cream cheese/ brie cheese/ feta cheese/ labneh kefir cheese inoculated with limburger/swiss and aged several months. High salt in the feta prevents botulism.
To your health,
Keith
Keith, thanks for the recipe. Just to clarify a few points:
Presumably you dilute with water dechlorinated and sterilized to prevent contamination by wild bacteria and yeast. Do you also cover the molasses starter while fermenting or use an airlock to prevent contamination by airborne bacteria and yeasts?
The aeration – is that continuous for the 3 days of fermentation or do you just aerate it before starting?
Nutritional yeast: I’m guessing this is dead yeast cells to supply the bacteria with proteins and minerals. Home brewers use this to prepare yeast starters before adding to the wort. Presumably also why you’re using molasses rather than sucrose, for the extra minerals.
Re the cheese: is that a mixture of all the cheeses or are they alternatives ie cream cheese OR brie OR feta etc or cream cheese AND brie AND feta etc. You then inoculate that cheese with a mixture of Limburger and Swiss cheese and ferment that for several months?
By my calculation you’re winding up with 6-8 pounds of pate – that’s a lotta food. How long does it keep in the fridge, do you freeze some of it and how much do you eat a day?
Apologies for all the questions, I just want to get your recipe clear in my mind. I’d also appreciate your input on how you cured BPH without zinc.
Thanks in advance, Stuart
If you were able to do Mediterranean diet, I’d stick with that, but eliminate olive and other oils from it. It works despite, not because of, oil. The higher scores for calcium should represent your plaque melting away and the body pitching in. Total cholesterol went up on Med diet, which is normal using olive oil or other oils. Olive oil is 14 percent of calories from saturated fat, same as a Big Mac. Saturated fat blunts the liver cells whose job it is to remove excess cholesterol, so it builds up when you consume saturated fat. If you stick with whole food plants and avoid oil, dairy, meat, fish as much as you can, the evidence is overwhelming you will reduce heart attacks, strokes, and deaths. See Dr. Esselstyn’s video “treating the cause…” on youtube for proof. Just tests don’t show the hard enpoints like death, stroke, attacks, they are only stastistics. I like to stick with hard endpoints since my calcium started out at 579, time to get serious and find the only diet with 4 years and 200 people 90 percent of whom were able to eat the diet and none of them got any further hard endpoint events. Calcium areas are stable, it’s the soft plaques that kill you. Your diet controls and reduces these soft plaques. I feel that is the best approach since it’s got human trials over 4 years with hard endpoints. Find a study like that for keto, etc. I couldn’t so here I am. It’s working well for me, maybe you should think about it. I can’t help but think if a couple hundred people went 4 years and had total cessation of their heart problems, I won’t be the only exception. ??
ALan – not on niacin for several years now. When I too 500 mg of niacin 2X day my HDL’s shot up to 3 readings of 125, 127, and finally a reading of 135. So my doctor stopped all niacin for me. that was probably sometime in 2014 if I remember.
ALan – also my mother has extremely high HDL’s – always over 100 (no supplements of any kind to get those numbers) and she is in her 90’s.
Greatdanes,
I was just pointing out that research shows that cardiovascular problems in cases of very high HDL might be related to a genetic quirk … women’s HDl seems to be ok at a higher level than mens, although in the 100’s also suggests a genetic quirk. She might have a genetic predisposition to CVD also because of this, but it might never have been expressed perhaps due to other factors inhibiting gene expression.
Thanks ALan – definitely worth checking out. One thing retired people with useless Ph. D.’s seem to manage is doing research. My doctor just said the same thing you pointed out about HDL’s but he doesn’t seem sure about what can be done.
Greatdanes –
You never mention being diagnosed with CAD/CVD nor having any symptoms of such except for the high Calcium scoring…
this scoring may of course indicate an increased risk. Given that this does however indicates some degree of arteriosclerosis, you might want to consider the Pauling-Rath hypothesis, in light of there being little else advised for high (potentially genetically related) HDL-C increasing your CVD risk (besides lifestyle changes (ie. avoidance of smoking, etc.).
The hypothesis, in a nutshell, proposes a normal body process of healing the insides of specific arteries that become easily damaged/inflamed when there is a chronic low level scurvy -(ie. lack of vitamin C (ascorbates)) and insufficient collagen production and/or ingestion. This proposed normal body process is protective of inelastic blood vessels and minimizes the potential leakage/hemorrhaging that might occur when the vessels become damaged and is characterized by the buildup of plaque, sort of like mortar covering a crack. Cholesterol and calcium and other agents play a role in the development and maintenance of this protective plaque. (I don’t know if the theory answers the question as to why the plaques seem to continue and thicken with time, but again, this is just the “nutshell, most likely to raise more questions than to give answers).
The theory proposes that supplying large amounts of vitamin C (ascorbates) daily together with sufficient amounts of lycine (and some other amino acids (eg. proline) perhaps typical in high collagen foods, like gelatin) can lead to a reversal of the build up of plaque and the inelasticity of the arteries, in effect reversing arteriosclerosis.
This theory has its roots in the understanding of lipoprotein(a) being a surrogate for ascorbates in humans:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2143582
Given the lack of pharma drugs being involved, it’s highly unlikely that this theory has ever see any in depth clinical trials, but a follow-up on Rath’s works over the last couple of decades may prove me wrong.
Perhaps it’s possible that eating a high vitamin C diet with sufficient amino acids to support collagen production (whilst minimizing other agents that might further trigger arterial inflammation) might suffice to start the reversal, esp. if competing amino acids (like methionine) are reduced to a minimum needed. Hence, the oft suggested plant-based diet for heart patients might be working in some way similar to that proposed by Pauling-Rath.
Alan – I have not shown any real indications of CAD/CVD. I have had 2 Eco’s and they were pretty good, age adjusted (readings taken at 85%. of max heart rate). Velocity’s were good and Ejection Factor of around 65%, which is apparently good.
2 different cardiologists for each test, one says things OK, the other is bothered but couldn’t say why, and he has since left my State so I can’t contact for more info.
Calcium score was on a 64 slice CAT, we don’t have any 128’s yet im my home State, so older 2D reading. My GP thinks Eco’s were OK due to collateral circulation development but would need a 128 slice 3D to make a better guess.
Rath et. all, Pauling is being revisited by me.
http://www.drdach.com/Heart_Disease.html
seems there might be worth trying.
The other worrisome problem is hsCRP just came in at 2.74 and my 3 previous readings were over 5, so inflammation going on somewhere, probably vessels. I need to fix this and neither of the cardiologists seemed to care and my GP doesn’t bother because won’t pay so I do these tests on my own dime through Life Extension.
Another possibility that worries me is the unknown factor of embedded cholesterol crystals in the plaques, since they herald ruptures, but there is not an easy way to measure them right now.
Myeloperoxidase number was in the good range and so was APO-B.
The last year I have been mostly concentrating on AMPK, HBA1C, Insulin levels and the last 2 have been very good. So, inflammation and calcium?
Have also just gotten 1 mg. tablets of cyclodextrin
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/04/160408112235.htm
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4878149/
Definitely going to try the Rath/Pauling Protocol now.
Hi Greatdanes, I notice that in the mouse study of cyclodextrin that they were injecting the CD subcutaneously. Do we know if CD is absorbed when taken by mouth?
Also where did you buy your CD tablets?
Lot of Gouda Cheese is made in US, especially Wisconsin. Any idea if the Vitamin K2 content of this Gouda is similar to Dutch Gouda? Can’t seem to find an answer to this question. Wisconsin also produces lots of aged Gouda.
Thank you much
Jay
If it’s not in the database, I don’t know.
Dutch Gouda is a variety (as opposed to smoked Gouda, etc.). It’s the one that usually has the red rind. I don’t think it’s actually referring to where it’s made.
My strength has went through the roof on just 500micro of mk4 and 100micro of mk7. I was sick for a couple weeks, and sat on the couch and did not workout at all. My bench went up from 205 to 245. And my shoulder pain is gone. Is this normal?
Depends. Could be the perfect storm: you were ready to go anabolic and the period of recuperation allowed you heal the injury and gain strength…or the rest time allowed your shoulder to heal enough to increase baseline function to lift more weight. See “Body by Science” – Doug Mcguff.
Sounds great. Could be coincidence, or could be testosterone.
My experience with starting on 1.3 mg of MK4 vitamin K2 was that it boosted connective tissue production, boosted testosterone mildly in an older male, and it also participates in some of the energy production in the mitochondria. It will definitely help bone formation in older adults.
If you are of an age to be getting artery calcification, MK4 works with the Matrix GLA Proteins to halt soft tissue calcification that might also be an issue for that shoulder.
Can one take Serrapeptase with K2? Thanks!
Really appreciate this post, thank you! 🙂
Thank-you for very informative discussion. It helped me resolve some questions on the MK-4/7 controversy. For severe osteoporosis, I am thinking vitamin MK-7, K1 in morning and MK-7 with high dose MK-4 (1mg) at dinner followed by Ca/Mg before bed since most bone remodeling is done at night?? Any thoughts??
Also, I am combining with Earthing which seems to help preserve minerals in body.
Earthing is something you might look at if you haven’t already. http://www.earthinginstitute.net/ and http://www.earthinginstitute.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/2018-congress-on-integrative-medicine-poster.pdf
It’s my understanding that Ca levels in bloodstream are high at night, implying lower during day. This would make the hours immediately preceding sleep to be the time when Ca is pulled from teeth and bones to flood the sleep metabolism and the time immediately following awakening to be when Ca is put back into teeth and bones (remodelling). Optimum Ca intake in the American models is 800 mg, in Euro models 750 mg. Good convergence. As max absorbable dose is 500 mg, a split dose is necessary. Upshot: I dose 400 mg in late evening to support rising Ca levels and 400 mg in morning to support remodelling, both from dairy and in isolation. K levels, not surprisingly, are inverse to this: low at night, rising in morning, circadian noon peak, lowering in evening. Thus, I shoot 1 mg K2 MK4 with the morning Ca dose. In 2013, I took a 28 foot fall off of a ladder onto a 45 deg slope, with full weight transfer onto my right foot. High grade sprain only (3 months rehab, all hail intensive heat-cold contrast therapy). No break. No fracture. Not even a hairline. Doctor x-rayed twice. Couldn’t believe it. I was 50 years old, with 25 years of backpacking experience. In 2015, I did the John Muir Trail (again): 200 miles, 3 weeks of continuous backpacking at 8,000-12,000 ft. Performance: 100%. Hat tip to Dr. Weston Price.
Just noticed your post. So you have had success with MK4 in morning. I have been using at night with MK7 and only MK7/K1 in morning. Sounds like you suggest AM and that remodeling is in morning not night.
How heat sensitive is the K7 in Natto?
If I do not want to consume the soy beans is it possible to swish/agitate the natto in warm water to separate the slime from the beans and then drink the liquid?
Since MK7 lasts 3.5 days in the body can I just consume a loading dose every 3 days? What would that dose be? I have been eating my natto with a teaspoon of cod liver oil or a teaspoon of red palm oil along with 1000 IU of D3. Does that seem functional?
You don’t know where the K2 is located inside the beans or in the slime, right? Start there, ask around. NattoPharma is a company that extracts K2, nattokinase, etc from natto. They might offer suggestions for you.
The idea of loading doses to span 3.5 days will result in less total K2 in the body, as it has a half life. You want the most area under the curve of K2 in the system, it won’t be the same on day 3 as on day 1, not even close. Natto contains MK7, a highly potent form of K2 which is oil soluble and persistent. 360 u/day results in fully carboxylated MGP, which keeps calcium away from soft tissue. It’s not known if this will keep it away if the body is wanting to put it there, however. People with artery disease, for instance, have plaques which can destabilize and cause clots, so the body throws calcium at them to keep them from rupturing. If you just take K2, that’s fine, but if the diet is atherogenic, the body will fight you on it, and probably win. Taking K2 so far hasn’t shown any positive results in studies, though there are a few anecdotes around that the calcium scores reduced. They didn’t say by how much, or how many people. Just typical slipshod references to it. Like Kris Kresser and I think Dr. Sinatra mentioned in passing. We haven’t heard back from Dr. Leon Shurgers anything about his 2 year study of couple hundred people and their calcium scores while taking the 360 units/day of K2. It was funded by Nattopharma, and was to be out in 2017. So I guess that showed either no effect, or even made things worse. Calcium in arteries doesn’t seem to be just a vitamin deficiency but a reaction to diet and poor nitric oxide levels in the arteries…not likely to correct it with a vitamin alone. It can be corrected, and has been, but took a lot more than that.
The article has a section on light and heat stability.
Hi Chris,
This is from your article:
Light and Heat Stability, and Proper Storage of Vitamin K2:
Vitamin K is only slightly sensitive to heat, but is extremely sensitive to light.
> Can you be more specific about the heat Sensitivity? I usually heat up some curry sauce or tomato sauce and add the natto beans. I have to cover the smell and taste. So how much to I need to cool the sauce after I take it to a simmer?
And… on light sensitivity — do I need to keep the natto in an opaque container if it is just exposed to the light in the refrigerator?
Thanks – Dwight
Hi Dwight, please see the references in the “click more” part of that section for details.
Hi Chris,
When look at the references in the “click more” I only find– Vitamin K1 (phylloquinone) content of edible oils: effects of heating and light exposure -.
Is there something I am missing in relation to K2 or– are you implying that K1 and K2 are comparable in regards to heating and light exposure?
In the absence of studies directly testing it, it is fair to assume similarity.
Chris,
Thought folks might be interested in this info:
http://www.meguminatto.com/about_natto.html
Finally found my answer to the heat tolerence:
Is it possible to cook hot dishes with NATTO?
When the enzyme Nattokinase is heated to a temperature of 150 degrees Fahrenheit or warmer for more than 10 minutes, the enzyme loses its effectiveness. However, you may add NATTO to your favorite pasta dish, to an omelet or hot dish of choice at the end of preparation and NATTO will keep its nutritional integrity. See our Recipe section for ideas and preparation tips.
This is another link with an overwhelming amount of info on Natto:
http://www.soyinfocenter.com/HSS/natto1.php
No my next rabbit hole is find the difference in Bacillus Natto and Bacillus Subtilis and I am still not sure if I rinse off the sticky substance (glutamic acid polymers), which forms long silvery gossamer threads when natto is lifted from a bowl I will get the full effect of the MK-7.
Any info on this would be appreciated.
Interesting long reads, I have been trying to research the truths/benefits of the GP butter oil/cod and if its really worth the money or if there are better things out there. NO WHERE seemed to tell you how much k2 was actually in it, and the owners didnt say it either. How did you find out it only has like .5 mg per pill?
Regardless, according to your research, you are saying that emu oil is the better option for the k2 mk4, is that correct? And you stated that k2 mk4 i “activator x”, therefore, emu oil is the better option for trying to ‘heal cavities’ or remineralize teeth? That is my most important question. Unless people swear that there is other ingredients in the butter oil that is healing their teeth. Just seems odd that emo oil has like 8x the amount and you aren’t hearing as much about people taking it.
OH another question (related to your long study about Price and how he tested with butter oil).. if you /others strongly believe k2 mk4 is activator X, why would Price use butter oil? In which you’ve proven there are better alternatives by far… including goose liver pate, which is even higher /cheaper per 100g? (100g of pate is easier to eat than 100g of pills or oil, and again cheaper since the emu oil only has 4 oz total)
thoughts? thanks for the writeups
These are in my database.
What does “these” mean? I asked questions and asked your thoughts and you replied with this dismissive answer. Not even a link if they are ‘in your database’
The items you discussed.
Please ask specific questions and not for “my thoughts” about anything. It takes me many hours to answer all of the specific questions, I cannot possibly answer open-ended ones.
Oh My God. I never knew all these benefits of vitamin K2. A friend of mine was diagnosed with vitamin K2 deficiency so I was searching the internet on her behalf to find some useful info regarding it. Trust me, your article is really helpful.
Dr Masterjohn,
thank you as always for your invaluable information. Any thoughts/comments on this option: https://www.naturalpartners.com/us/full-spectrum-vitamin-k/AL0250PAR?x=
?
Thanks,
Lilian Holm
I’d prefer something with less K1, and lower doses overall for more control. Not sure the point of the low-dose D/A/E in it.
Hi, I am taking Ortho Molecular Products K-force. It contains Vitamin D3 as cholecalciferol, 125 mcg,(5,000 iu) and Vitamin K2 as menaquinone-mk-7 180mcg.
Would love to know your thoughts. I guess I need to add MK 4 as well?
Thank you for your time.
Donna Elliott
Too much D for most people. K2 is fine though I’d rather see it include some MK4.
5000IU/day is too much D? IIRC Michael Holick said in his book The Vitamin D Prescription that most people could take 5000 IU/day pretty much indefinitely. Also see this blog post by the late Robert Heaney
http://blogs.creighton.edu/heaney/2015/02/13/the-iom-miscalculated-its-rda-for-vitamin-d/
which reports that some Canadian statisticians found that the IOM got their maths wrong and the requirement is closer to 9000IU/day. Heaney’s estimate is 7000IU, as he says still an order of magnitude greater than the IOM limits. Heaney also points out in this post
http://blogs.creighton.edu/heaney/2014/06/05/vitamin-d-and-the-nursing-mother/
that nursing mothers require 5-6000IU/day to ensure adequate D in their breast milk. Of course given that UVB exposure, dietary D and individual’s dose-response all vary, the only way to determine your individual daily dose is to have regular blood tests and adjust accordingly.
Prior to coming across his blog I wasn’t aware of Dr Heaney but judging from the fulsome tributes on his death in 2016 he was THE premier researcher into osteoporosis being the prime mover behind the Omaha Nuns Study on bone health. As I’m witnessing the effects of osteoporosis on parents and neighbours I have become interested in preventing it in me and my family. Dr Heaney’s blog is particularly useful, especially his point about the interaction of Vit D status, calcium intake and protein intake ie
1) Vit D status must be adequate to enable dietary calcium absorption, typically 125nmol/L (50ng/dl)
2) Even if D is adequate, dietary Ca also has to be sufficient
3) If either of these conditions are not met then the body breaks down bone to scavenge the Ca it needs for more critical body functions
4) To rebuild that bone adequate protein in the diet is required to build the protein matrix destroyed in the process of bone resorption. Dr Heaney found that elderly adults required 1.2 grams protein per Kg of body weight to rebuild osteoporotic bone, 50% higher than the recommended intake of 0.8gm/Kg.
5) Bone rebuilding is also dependent on the stimulus provided by weight-bearing exercise.
This is explained in this post
http://blogs.creighton.edu/heaney/2013/04/08/defining-normal-part-two/
and the other posts in his “What is normal” series.
Yes I’m very familiar with their work, I just disagree with it. I laid out these arguments in a series on “ancetral 25(OH)D” on the weston price site.
Chris, it takes 7,000 IU of D3 per day to just get me to a level of 40 on my 25-hydroxy vitamin D labs. And I’m an ApoE4 homozygote…so I’m sticking to it that amount. 🙂
Ok. 🙂
Chris what do you think about Jarrow K-right? It has 1500 mcg MK4 and 180 mcg MK7, plus 2000 iu of D3. Is that a safe D3 level? I don’t want to give my mom too much daily. Daniel
MK-7, made from bacteria, and found in natto (fermented soybeans) is not a bioactive form of vitamin K2 . In fact, research by Yanagisawa, 2003, shows a large amount of water-soluble MK-7 in natto. Vitamin K2 is a fat-soluble vitamin…If MK-7 is really a form of K2, why is it water soluble? It cannot be both ways. Is MK-7 not really what the industry says it is?
While there is some function to the MK7 form of vitamin K2 in the body, what the body makes for its own use is the MK4 form of vitamin K2 which is converted from vitamin K. There is a large difference in the half lives in blood of the two vitamin K2 forms, MK4 has a half life of 3.5 hours while MK7 has a half life of 3.5 days. While there are arguments over the meaning of this, one hypothesis is that the body is highly adapted to use of MK4 as it is present in all mammals and MK4 may simply be more mobile in the body than MK7. The MK4 gets into a variety of places, helping manage calcium metabolism, regulate blood sugar levels, cell energy levels, and build portions of the myelination of nerve cells. The six very successful Vitamin K2 Research Trials in Japan were all run using the MK4 form which resulted in 80% reductions in bone breakage rates in elderly adults.
The longer side chain of the MK7 form makes it more fat soluble and the higher MKx forms of the vitamin generally are present only in the liver and have no function in the body that I’ve read about. Small mammal trials with birth into a sterile environment and no digestive bacteria result in normal vitamin K2 function, so the MK7 bacterial form is not essential to mammals. The MK7 form may well have some function in carboxylating Matrix GLA and Calcitonin present in the blood where MK7 tends to reside.
In a number of reviewed reports on vitamin K2, I’ve noted the authors missing the important difference in chemistries between MK4 and MK7, at times conflating the two molecules with the result that research results found with the MK4 form are often used in the promotion of the MK7 form in much promotional literature and even some research reviews. This leads to a very confusing situation unless one examines the original research for the precise form of Vitamin K2 in use in order to classify the health outcomes of MK4 and MK7 forms separately. Animal livers often contain MK4 while cheeses, natto, and other products may contain mostly MK7 with some MK4 present in cheeses. You will note that food sources of vitamin K2 often don’t separate the two forms by source.
I hope this answers all your questions.
“The six very successful Vitamin K2 Research Trials in Japan were all run using the MK4 form which resulted in 80% reductions in bone breakage rates in elderly adults.”
Are you referring to studies by Sato (so?)? I believe most of them have been retracted he and his work quite discredited.
I was not referring to the retracted article by Sato. There were six successful trials with MK4 over several thousand patients so
Sato’s retraction with 178 total patients is rather minimal. Recent work has continued at lower doses of MK4: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23702931
Thank you
MK7 is fat-soluble.
That’s it? Please give us your analysis of the study by Yanagisawa, 2003 which states that MK-7 in natto is mostly water-soluble, If It is fat-soluble why did Dr. John W. Suttie, a life-long Vitamin K-2 researcher, give this study as a reference in his books? And what about Viridis and others announcing they made a “water-soluble” form of MK-7? Was it not water-soluble to begin?
I wonder if the water solubility of MK7 is a promotional statement and a concept coming out of the manufacturing process. See this informational write up that describes a water soluble MK7 due to an added ingredient yet also refers to MK7 as primarily fat soluble in technical terms.
http://www.nutritionaloutlook.com/heart-health/water-soluble-vitamin-k2-mk-7-ingredient-eases-formulation
Please link to the study, thanks.
MK7 at a dose of 360 u/day fully carboxylated MGP by test in humans, according to Dr. Leon Shurgers, PhD, a primary K2 researcher. So it is bioactive, whatever its solubility.
Sir, does continued high doses of k2 mk4 and k2 mk7 actually remove hard plaque from the vessels, while directing calcium to the bones as well. Is using higher doses of these k2’s considered a artery cleaner in your opinion. We know that k2 inhibits further deposits onto the vessel walls, but how about removing whats already cemented on the walls. May GOD always bless you and your family.
Dear Stevie, I have used an excellent product made of liquid EDTA from Cardio Renew, and the EDTA cleans the hard calcium deposits slowly right off the blood vessel walls. Who knew till lately that K2 mk4 and 7 “tell” the calcium where to go, to the bones and teeth. Wish we would have known this sooner. My high blood pressure is medicated, but I am now getting great results with the edta, slowly my HBP is changing even while on the meds, I know that a few more weeks and I can ditch the meds, and have Dairy far more often, Yes certain cheeses are high in k2, but pizza, milk shakes, grilled cheese sandwiches, cottage cheese, yogurts, ice cream, soooo much dairy and no k2 lined my arteries real good (bad), so now I have found EDTA liquid is really liquifying the harden plaque, thank you JESUS THE CHRIST.
In my experience and readings, it’s not yet clear that K2 will prevent further calcium build up in arteries in humans. I don’t see any real evidence yet of that. There are animal studies, and people saying they can feel it is going away, but actual images and measurements would be required to know for sure, and I have yet to find any.
The idea that K2 will remove existing calcium from arteries, without significant dietary or other changes is unlikely, in my opinion. Calcium is not there totally due to low K2, it’s also put there by the body as a stabilizer for soft plaque. It can be produced in lab animals simply by feeding them a high saturated fat and cholesterol diet, similar to the US diet, or Atkins, or Paleo type diets with low calories from carbs and high calories from fats. The only thing that really worked to save the lives of these poor animals was dripping a tiny amount of sodium nitrite into their drinking water, which prevented the plaques from forming.
I bought some K2 pills that are 600 mcg. Not sure if I’ll be able to cut them in half or not. The question is, if I want “200mcg per day”, and I take the 600mcg pill once every three days, am I really going to get the full benefit of 600mcg, or will I only get the benefit of (say) 200mcg on day one and then nothing on the subsequent days because I excreted the rest of it?
Basic question: cut the pills and take daily, or take entire pills intermittently?
Intermittent is probably fine.
Is it safe to assume that cOCN won’t have the chance to become ucOCN and circulate freely and abundantly systemically without adequate vitamin K? But then how is is that ucOCN is associated with vitamin K deficiency? Perhaps acutely only.
This part is a bit confusing – I am trying to read some sicentific articles on it, but it is still confusing.
It certainly is confusing. If I recall correctly, the body keeps some uncarboxylated osteocalcitonin around as its used as a hormone in the body, so the carboxylation of osteocalcitonin is well proportioned and never actually gets totally complete. The body discards the excess MK4 Vitamin K2 to keep some ucOC around for use as a hormone. This is why there is research saying that both 1.5 mg and 45 mg daily doses of MK4 work in different trials.
Note that the body normally makes enough MK4 by converting it from vitamin K but this process slows with age and then people need to supplement to replace the missing production. I would take the 45 mg a day if I had a dangerous amount of artery calcification or medically dangerous bone loss. Since I’m in good health my dose is in the 1 mg to 6 mg range and I found even 1.3 mg over 18 months to be very helpful with reversing artery calcification.
I very much appreciate your input!!
David, could you please clarify that i understood you correctly?
You said “1.3 mg over 18 months”. I’m assuming you mean 1.3 mg per day?
You also said you found that dosage to be “very helpful with reversing artery calcification”.
How did you determine that it helped with artery calcification? Did you have any medical scans?
I started taking 10mg of the Thorne MK4 per day. But after a few weeks my teeth have become a lot more sensitive.
I don’t eat dairy due to an intolerance so my calcium intake was probably quite low. I’ve started taking calcium supplements now which is why i did the high dose of the MK4.
But after reading around a bit, including from one person in this thread, (Brik March 27, 2017 at 5:40 pm), vitamin K2 can have adverse effects in people with low calcium levels.
My other theory is perhaps MK4 should be taken with MK7 as the latter is supposed to be best for transporting calcium to the bones?
Do you have any thoughts on this as you seem to be quite knowledgeable on this subject?
I didn’t have any scans for calcium, but the symptoms matched up with those of artery calcification and I had them steadily for twenty years until I started on the MK4 & MK7 supplement. It was a surprise that the symptoms started decreasing, I didn’t know at the time they were calcium related. The symptoms did come back when I started on a second multiple mineral supplement by mistake and was getting over 2000 mg of calcium daily for a few months. The symptoms returned until I figured out I was taking two mineral pills so artery calcification is the simplest, most likely explanation.
I was taking 1.3 mg per day during this period. Your 10 mg dose is reasonable and might be a little high if your physiological needs for MK4 are low. Generally the body cuts up and discards what it doesn’t use so taking MK4 is very safe. You can take the MK7 if you wish, but its not as functional at the MK4 form in research trials. Some people are sensitive to MK7 and get anxiety, sleeplessness, and a thumping heart beat from taking it after a couple of days while MK4 never has this problem.
All the fat vitamins, vitamin A, D3, K, and K2 work together so you might try taking dose that science has found most effective in recent trials.
I have a 540 calcium score, 4 months ago got a stem implant. Doctors placed me on Crestor 40 mg, lowered to 10mg due side effects. Zetia 10mg.
Since both of these drugs interfere with the production or absorption of K2-MK7.
How should I start a K2 + D3 treatment along with medicine I am taking now?
What dosis of K2 + D3 should I take? Since half life of both of these drugs is high should I take them every other day?
Thanks
Jerry Lectora
If vitamin K could affect the action of the drugs, your doctor should arrange that your levels be checked often enough to assure the drugs are not impacted by either your diet or your vitamin supplements. I think they used to just say “don’t eat this, don’t take that” but nowadays they test your levels and increase or reduce dosage to fit your lifestyle. I have a friend who gets his levels of coumadin checked about every 2 weeks. HTH
One more thing, about doses. I take both the form Mk7 and Mk4 about 400 of 7 and a few drops of Thorne liquid Mk4 (each drop contains 1mg Mk4). I have a 579 calc score.
I take 5000 IU vitamin D3 per day as well.
I am on a plant-based diet for heart disease. I do not believe heart disease or calcification of arteries is a vitamin deficiency, it’s a food-borne illness that responds best to whole food plant based diets like that of Dr. Esselstyn. He’s got the goods on it, and can halt-reverse it predictably with ease. I’m doing great with it and feel it is worth the work to get on it and stay on it. The point is, food causes it and food alone can prolong it despite all our efforts–we have to change the food before we expect to change the outcome. If we do, then the supplements and drugs do stand a chance. If we don’t they won’t help. I’ve seen this all over the place and there’s no escape at present.
Not sure how heart disease can be dietary but not involve a vitamin deficiency. An excess? Then why would supplementing, adding more, of anything, help? Do you literally believe that it is an infectious disease? —I don’t think you will find much evidence supporting that—or do you mean “food borne illness” as a metaphor?)
Also, has it occurred to you to question why it is your “healthy” diet requires any supplementation? I’m not telling you to eat differently. Perhaps you ate poorly in the opposite way and now this diet is therapeutic compensation. For you. For now. Not a universal panacea against heart disease.
It just seems disingenuous to be promoting a “plant based” diet on a page dealing with a vitamin deficiency that many of us were brought to (the page and the deficiency) by that same inadequate diet.
Well, food-borne illness means to me that if you take away the foods causing it, it goes away, in much the same way a vector such as fleas or mosquitos carry diseases with them. Food can provide building blocks for disease or health. Many believe all food is good in moderation, or small amounts. Variety is spice of life, etc. This despite evidence to the contrary. The whole food plant-based diet is well documented and 100 percent effective despite age, or extent of illness. It’s not my claim, in other words. I’m following it because it’s the only diet that has been proven. Not many realize this has happened, but it has. Having b12 is part of it and I do supplement with that, as well as D3 and K2. I did eat a delicious but nasty high meat diet that put me into trouble, and this is therapeutic towards undoing some of that, as much as I can, and at least stopping the progress of the disease. I realize the diet sounds extreme and improbable, but it’s not that way in many parts of the World where billions don’t have much if any heart disease. It makes sense to try their diet, and sure enough it does work. Not maybe, not seems to, but works 100 percent of the time. I take supplements because even if you do eat meat, today the b12 is less present there. Grass fed has more because the bacteria that make b12 are in grass but not so much if any in grain. Dr. Caldwell Esselstyn’s research just completed on 200 heart patients showed the ones who did his diet for 4 years had zero further heart attacks, zero strokes, zero deaths. The ones who failed to do the diet had 66 percent of these. What’s interesting is the compliance rate was 180 out of 200. I expected the diet to work if used, but had no idea it would be so accepted and practiced. I am not in love with this diet, just trying to keep living, of course. I loved my steaks, hot dogs, fish, name it, I ate it. But this diet has a lot of benefits beyond the heart disease too. No more acid reflux, ED is half gone away, lost 40 lbs am now 180 at 6′ 1″, it’s really quite good, and my protein blood levels are better than on the meat diet. I still workout with weights and so on.. So ignore it like I did until it was too late? If I couldn’t do it without a gun to my head, you probably can’t, either. The most amazing thing to me is that this diet’s results are so ignored. If the threat exists and you feel it, I hope you do try this, as it will work, whereas I can’t find anything else with that kind of documentation. I wish I could find a diet with animal products in it, but nope, the one that’s got the goods is plant only. My best, Bob
Bob that isn’t what food-born means.
I am going to reiterate but more clearly: many people, myself included, have been made ill by following the nutritionally deficient diet you are proselytizing for. I can only wish I had not had the discipline to follow my (misinformed) ethical principles for all those years, I might be a whole lot healthier now.
Bafflingly to me, some people with certain problems do seem to get benefit from your diet, at least for a while. Some people with certain problems get benefit from IV poison (chemo therapy). That doesn’t make either a prescription for healthy living.
Antonio, very sorry your diet involving plants didn’t work out. There are people who did Esselstyn’s diet who said it didn’t work. When Esselstyn questioned them to find out exactly what they did, he then said, ok you are going to be ok, we’re going to do this again, this time we’ll do it my way, not your version of may way, and they got well after a death sentence from their doctors. The evidence isn’t that just some people got well as you said, but they all did..all stopped and reversed their heart disease. I don’t know what you were trying to do with your diet, but I know it wasn’t heart disease, and I know you didn’t do it the way Esselstyn prescribes. The evidence is overwhelming, not just in his trials but people all over the world, billions of them who have eaten his way over time immemorial have not had any significant heart disease in their societies, and so long as food for the diet was available, lived long healthy lives. The meat heavy diets in the world have discovered damaged arteries and rampant heart disease when investigated properly. The diet isn’t just vegan it’s whole plant foods and no added oils, low salt, low sugar, similar to native diets in areas where heart disease is almost non-existent, and health is robust, such as Tarahumara Indians of Northern Mexico, who run 500 mile foot races lasting a week, in which men, women, children and old people participate. Their diet is chiefly corn, beans, and squash, almost no meat at all. But it would not mean much had it not been tried here in the US with 200 people, 180 of whom ate it for 4 years and had zero recurrence of heart disease, while the 20 who failed 66 percent had recurrences, including deaths. If your experience was different, well, ok, sorry to hear it, but would certainly not put it up against that kind of evidence in choosing my own path. I don’t think you would if you were me, either.
with regards to plant based versus whole food plant based, I know it sounds like nit-picking, but it’s truly not. There’s a big difference, a critical difference. If you said try veganism as a heart disease cure, I’d agree, don’t do it. You expose yourself to every junk food on the planet that way. Chances are you’d get even sicker. Dr. Esselstyn has treated many vegans successfully for heart disease. The question of nutrition from day one was measured with tests of protein, and other nutrients to spot any deficiencies and found none if the diet was done right. In my case, I may have mentioned this, I was a huge meat eater until age 70, and my protein blood levels tested low-side normal, but well within the range. After the whole food plant based diet, they rose to dead center of the normal range, and have remained there for 2 years now. All my blood tests are superb at this point in time 2 years on the diet. Blood pressure is 110/60. It went down from 140/90. I do weights at the gym 2-3 times a week, and climb 50 flights of stairs 2 steps at a time. I could never had done that previously. My weight has dropped from 220 to 180 and is within 2 lbs of it constantly. There is no medical treatment my doctor could offer me to equal or even approach this. The difference between vegan and whole food plant-based is chasmic, not subtle, in terms of results. If you think I’m a vegan think again, far from it. I wear leather jackets, but I eat only whole plant foods. WHOLE. I am aware too of the pollution from animal industries, and suffering. Hate that all. But there’s a way to do this right, and it’s stunning how well it works.
Heart disease could also be a Vitamin C deficiency. Humans do not make vitamin C in their livers like most mammals do. We need to get enough in food or supplement. Since animals make 1000 mg per day minimum that might be a good place to start.
The point being that animals typically don’t get coronary artery disease like people do. Vitamin C may explain that.
That’s true we don’t make our own vitamin C like other animals do. But it’s very easy to induce heart disease in rats and monkeys by feeding them a diet high in saturated fat and cholesterol, similar to humans in the US. The monkeys died off in months, the rats in weeks. Monkeys were fed actual hospital meals in a research center hospital and they all died in under a year! eek
Thorne’s vitamin d3 + k2 supplement is not vegan but there are vegan ones availible that contain both mk4 and mk7. Heres a link to a vegan vitamin d3 + mk4 and mk7 supplement if youre interested https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07CRLLM6C/?tag=lifesupdat06-20&th=1&psc=1
The situation is that in research trials with rats, they gave rat pups doses of warferin from birth to stop their use of vitamin K and its its conversion to MK4 vitamin K2. This resulted in the rats dying of calcified and burst arteries at about two months of age, so the research points in the direction of MK4 being critical to control of calcium metabolism in the body, scavenging it from the soft tissues and helping place it in bones.
Artery calcification is the most critical health measurement of heart and artery disease, so the use of MK4 should be of primary interest for many people with heart disease. Atherosclerosis can be reduced by a reduction in triglycerides caused by going to a low carbohydrate diet. These two items should be major factors in planning your health.
I understand that Vitamin D3 consumption increases the demand for Vitamn K2.
I’ve read that if taking both Vit D3 and K2, that it is best to NOT take them at the same time. Do you agree with this? why or why not?
Hi Eric,
This has been discussed before. In short both vitamin D3 and Vitamin K2 are absorbed easily and do not interfere with each other so there is no need to worry about separating them in the diet.
Hi Chris,
I have been taking the Nested Naturals MK-7 for at least a year along with cod liver oil. I usually take 1 capsule a day although when I was pregnant I took 4 capsules a day. I’m wondering if I should add MK-4 to my diet in the form of emu oil (or the other supplemental versions you recommend).
Basically, my questions are first, does a bioidentical MK-4 supplement affect the body differently than emu oil? Second, using your database it seems like I would have to eat almost half a bottle of emu oil every day to get 200 mcg. Does that seem accurate? Database says emu oil has 416.3 micrograms of MK-4 per 100 mL, and a bottle of the liquid emu oil is 118 mL and costs $45. I just want to make sure I’m doing the math correctly.
I am trying to heal from several health issues and rebuild my body for a future pregnancy so I want to get the optimal dose of K2 and it can be so confusing.
Thanks!
Just stay away from green pastures ‘fermented’ liver cod oil……google the scandal exposed by former wapf vice ceo…..it is crap
How much Mk4 does one bottle of Green Pasture BUTTER OIL have? In the database, it says 81.5. Not sure about the unit.
If it is 81.5 μg/100ml, then the whole bottle has 81.5ug/100ml * 240ml = 196ug = 0.196mg.
If it is 81.5ug/100g, then the whole bottle has 81.5ug/100g * 500g = 407ug = 0.407mg. I don’t know the exact weight of the 240 ml butter oil. But the website says the shipping weight is 1.1lb, which includes the glass bottle. So 500g is a good estimation.
Anyway, the whole bottle has less than 1 mg MK4. In contrast, one drop of Thorne has 1 mg MK4. So one drop of Thorne has more MK4 than the whole 240ml bottle of Green Pasture BUTTER OIL.
Is my calculation correct?
I take exception to the conventional recommended Vitamin K2 requirement.
The following clinical trial showed that tissue calcification can be reversed by taking Vitamin K2:
M.H. Knapen, et al., “Menaquinone-7 Supplementation Improves Arterial Stiffness in Healthy Postmenopausal Women. A Double-Blind Randomised Clinical Trial,” Thromb. Haemost. 113(5), 1135–1144 (2015).
In this trial the daily dose of K2 was 500 micrograms. Yet only 50% of matrix GLA protein was activated. Clearly 500 micrograms is inadequate and a simple estimate for daily requirement would be 2×500 micrograms/day or 1 milligram/day.
My reading of the literature tells me that 10,000 IU Vitamin D3 plus 10,000 IU Vitamin A per day promotes a six fold increase in matrix GLA transcription. These two vitamins were not supplied in the clinical trial. Another six fold or 6 milligrams/day of Vitamin K2 would be required by logic.
Lance Armstrong reports on his website that high doses of Vitamin K2 cause a tingling vibration in the fingers. I find this as well as extra sensitivity in my finger tips. Lance Armstrong had incentive to take large doses of Vitamin K2. Physiological studies report that modest K2 in the 500 microgram/day range confer a 15% increase in aerobic ability. A 15% aerobic advantage is enough to win a bicycle race. Res ipso loquitur after six Tour de France victories.
Studies are underway to establish the K2 daily requirement. Linus Pauling noted repeatedly there is a great deal of difference between adequate vitamin intake and the amount that confers optimum performance.
Kevin,
Thank you for the through review of the varying carboxylation needs for Matrix GLA. One of the reasons for so many varying estimates of vitamin K2 requirements are that in youth and health, all of the body requirements for carboxylation are met by internal conversion of vitamin K to the MK4 form of vitamin K2. When this slows with age or poor health we find loss of bone and calcification of the soft tissues as parts of calcium metabolism. As a result, estimating vitamin K2 needs is a varying target. Better research methods look at carboxylation levels to answer this question.
An additional complexity is that the body also uses uncarboxylated calcitonin as part of its hormonal control system and works to keep this hormone available. So the carboxylation level never gets to 100% with calcitonin. This is part of the reason that MK4 vitamin K2 doses have such a broad range of recommendations and use in research ranges from 1 mg to 45 mg daily as the body actively discards MK4 to preserve a useful level of uncarboxylated calcitonin. This aspect of controlling MK4 vitamin K2 availability may affect carboxylation rates of Matrix GLA as well. The 45 mg of MK4 daily has been noted as the most effective dose at reducing bone breakage rates in the elderly, but lower doses may have a nearly similar effectiveness.
In my own experience I had a turn around of artery calcification symptoms over 12 to 18 months with a supplement with just 1.3 mg of MK4 vitamin K2. As a 65 year old healthy male I noted improvements in testosterone levels from adding more and taking 6 grams of MK4 vitamin K2 daily which is in line with your estimates. Certainly a patient seeking reversal of calcification would want to add vitamin D3 and other nutrients to boost Matrix GLA production along with a matching level of vitamin K2. This relationship with vitamin D3 makes sense, as more vitamin D is available, more calcium is absorbed therefore more Matrix GLA is needed for a well controlled calcium metabolism that avoids calcification.
Such thorough information about Vitamin K2; fascinating and so helpful, especially the details about the Ubiad1 gene expression for the conversion of Vitamin K1 to MK4, which depends on zinc and magnesium.
At 69 years of age, I notice my need for magnesium increasing, with my refusal to part with my youthful stamina to stay active and healthy. From experience (although I don’t know how it feels to be 80 or more) I can say that keeping the body cleaned out, intestinal tract normal with smooth moves, the lymth system and liver in top form, magnesium helps a lot!
Finally, I am very, very thankful for your work! I receive many health-newsletters and I look forward to the more personal time and involvment and depth you express in yours.
Blessings to you from Koh Samui, Thailand
This is a quote from you K2 info:
“Light and Heat Stability, and Proper Storage of Vitamin K2
Vitamin K is only slightly sensitive to heat, but is extremely sensitive to light.
What do you mean by “only slightly sensitive to heat”? I like to mix my natto with some kind of spicy sauce and a veggie to help overcome the small and taste. I’ve been heating the mixture to about 129 F. Is this too hot, am I degrading the Natto?
Hi Chris,
Thank you for this resource and your podcasts!
I’m really interested in K2’s role in oral health (I’m a dental hygienist).
I saw that you mentioned in this article that there are not a lot of studies on K2 and dental caries/dental health. However, I’m wondering if you now know of any recently completed research on the topic or even if any studies are being undertaken currently?
Cheers!
Can you explain why beef liver is listed in the database at 106 and then braised, raw, and pan fried are listed as being so much lower?
I have been taking at least twice the mk7 you have for over 2 years, and no effects on my blood glucose or cholesterol. I have 579 calcium score as of 2 years ago and am not planning to take another scan. I know it will be higher, and I don’t care. Calcium is only 20 percent of plaque volume, and I am sure mine has gone down, since my ED is going away without ED meds, meaning the arteries are opening up. Also, when plaque volume declines from plant-based diets, it loosens up the plaque and the body throws in some extra calcium to stabilize it. This may continue awhile until all the softer plaque is either gone, or stable, then perhaps the body will allow calcium to decline, but maybe not until. I’m doing a whole food plant-based diet to deal with the arteries, not depending on a single vitamin like K2, as some seem to be doing. I also take nitric oxide lozenges Neo40, and large dose L-citrulline a couple of times per day. I don’t know your diet, but for insulin resistance, the whole food plant-based diet with no added oil has been shown to work best, see the site: masteringdiabetes.org for more info. Best of luck!
Curious what doze of citrulline you take
I was taking citrulline malate 2:1 powder from bulksupplements.com in about 3-4 grams 3 times a day. I thought lately that in my case, I should also include L-arginine powder (same source) along with each dose of citrulline. This is due to a test I got on my ADMA levels, which were found to be very high. So I should balance them out with L-arginine, in addition to the citrulline malate I was taking. I get the dose of about 5 grams twice to 3 times a day, and the ratio by volume (not by weight) turns out to be 3 part citrulline and 5 parts arginine. The arginine is just straight base arginine, not compounded with anything else, while the citrulline when I buy it comes as citrulline and malic acid 2:1 respectively. Malic acid is the stuff found in apples, so should pose no problems. Currently I take it twice to 3 times per day, spread out as far as possible and away from food. hope that helps. Bob
..the ADMA test can be gotten from contacting Argininecardio.com and emailing them asking for how to order it. You prick your finger and put some dots of blood onto a card they send you and it goes off to University of Hamburg, Germany for analysis. It costs 150 bucks. Arginine was shown to benefit people with high ADMA levels, but not so much people with normal or low ones. This is so because ADMA competes with arginine to use up the enzyme eNOS (endothelial nitric oxide synthase). Too much ADMA and the enzyme gets used up and arginine then cannot work, you get No nitric oxide. That’s my situation. The answer is to increase the body’s ratio of arginine to ADMA so arginine can again compete with ADMA, and make nitric oxide once again. If you already have a good ratio, then arginine may not work well or could backfire somehow I don’t quite understand yet. My ratio of 3:5 by volume was calculated to give me a 2:1 ratio of arginine to citrulline by weight, which was determined the best ratio to maximize the area under the curve for arginine concentration in blood if taken in spread out doses. The powders do not weigh the same by volume, so I figured it all out so that 3 parts loose volume (not packed down) of citrulline malate to 5 parts of base L-arginine, gives you a 1:2 ratio of pure citrulline to pure arginine, which is the ideal to raise blood levels of l-arginine most efficiently. Someone might want to know their ADMA levels before doing arginine, but doing citrulline malate seems to offer benefits without any risks posed by arginine. That study by Hopkins was only one, they used Arginine-HCL, which is not tested, and many other studies showed benefits, so who knows.
I’ve been taking V2mk7 200 micrograms/ day for about 6-8 wks. after 440 cardiac calcium score. I was expecting stellar results on my unrelated routine II Diabetes monitoring and instead got a Hg1ac score increase of a full percentage point, total cholesterol increase of about 20%, and my fasting and post exercise levels BG levels have gone all over the place after having been more or less stable and predictable for the last 18 years. Not to be overly dramatic, but it feels like my choice is death by calcification or by high blood glucose. If K-2 is supposed to increase insulin sensitivity, why does the reverse seem to be happening? What am I not understanding?
Hi Chris,
Got 2 questions for you if you dont mind:
1. Can I take Emu Oil (walkabout) with this product *Long term*? Will there be too much K2?
Garden of Life Vitamin K – Vitamin Code Raw K Complex Whole Food Vitamin Supplement
in this website: https://nutritionyoucanuse.com/vitamin-k-best-brands-and-benefits-for-2017#best
it says ” there is 100 mcg of MK-7 vitamin K2, along with an additional 20 mcg of MK-4 vitamin K2 and vitamin K1.
Collectively, this results in 120 mcg of vitamin K. For many people, this brand may be particularly powerful because it offers a vegan source of vitamin K2.”
2. I am not comfortable with synthetic K2 forms and want to find natural forms like Emu Oil and Garden of Life… do you recommend Emu Oil + another K2 product that is in “natural form” such as whole foods?
Thanks!
Mike
PS according to this naturopath, Emu Oil is all you need for your K2 needs: (I believe that’s what she says)
https://walkabouthealthproducts.com/emu-oil-dr-weston-price-activator-x/
Thank you Chris for all the information about vitamin K2. I’m interested in trying a cheddar rich in K2, and can’t find one in Las Vegas or online. Where can I order Little Milk Company or other cheddar online?
Hi Chris,
In addition to your valuable information about supplements and diet, I was wondering if you have researched the synthesis of menoquinone. There are science articles which discuss various enzymes involved and specifically MenD which is a thiamine dependent enzyme. This is one of the studies. What does this mean to us? Does thiamine deficiency affect Vitamin K2? I know that K2 is fat soluble and it may be produced by bacteria.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3656419/
Specificity and Reactivity in Menaquinone Biosynthesis: The Structure of Escherichia coli MenD (2-Succinyl-5-Enolpyruvyl-6-Hydroxy-3-Cyclohexadiene-1-Carboxylate Synthase)
Thank you, Chris, for such helpful information.
Can anyone suggest any reason why I seem to get slightly breathless shortly after taking vitamin K? I’m taking just 1 drop of the Thorne K2 one.
I’ve also noticed in the past that I have more mast cell reactions and become more irritable when I’m taking K2.
I’m not taking any other supplements other than low dose transdermal magnesium chloride, though I am using homeopathic B vitamins. I don’t eat much in the way of dietary vit K. I eat a limited PUFA, WAPF-ish diet but without the ferments and broths/gelatin, since I don’t tolerate those, and with only small amounts of liver since it makes me cross and less able to sleep. I don’t eat much calcium from vegetable sources, but I do eat hard cheese every day.
I have plenty of food intolerances and likely nutritional imbalances, but the only metabolic issue I know I have is that I had high end of normal range iron and low end of normal range ferritin and transferrin saturation on the one test I did.